Thread: More on the fuel debate

Originally Posted by 303gunner

The excise on both petrol and diesel was fixed in 2006 (ie: no longer indexed for CPI increases) at $.38143. ....

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

... federal excise on fuel is fixed and expressed in dollars per litre (or in fact part dollars per litre) to 5 decimal places ... ... Previously the excise was increased alongside the CPI but this no longer the case. ...

Isn't that what I said ? Except the Indexing alongside CPI ended in March 2001. (Fuel Tax Inquiry - Background Papers - History of Fuel Taxation in Australia)

Originally Posted by 303gunner

...The Diesel Rebate Scheme is not just limited to rural and regional operators, or limited to farms. It is available to ANY ABN holder using a diesel vehicle of GVM greater than 4.5t on a public road. ...

Yes, strictly speaking you are correct, however for brevity I was including the Diesel and Alternative Fuels Grants Scheme, which applies everywhere to vehicles over 20 tonne GVM and for vehicles between 4.5 and 20 tonnes GVM only in regonal and remote areas.

Regarding the increased excise on diesel, I can not currently find a reference and perhaps it was only a NSW tax, before the High Court ruling that it was illegal for States to impose an excise tax. So I will currently accept my err on that matter.

To return to the whole issue of fuel prices, the ability for any Government in Australia to have any real impact on the price of fuel at the bowser is very limited and if they removed all taxes the price would still be over $1.00/litre. It is not only our problem here it is worldwide and blaming the Government, any Government will do little to find a solution to the problem.

Perhaps we should be driving solar powered Land Rovers!

It's a frivilous (sp?) arguement due to the fact that there is absolutly nothing at all that we can do about it.

There is not enough available farming area to produce a reliable amount of Bio fuels which would before long end up the same as this anyway.

There would be a shortage for about 5 mins that would keep echoing though pricing for the next 5 years thanks to things like Parity, GST, Levies and profit margins.

If parity was to be dropped then for a very short period of time all af the oil companies would flood markets like China and India who have the money to pay for the oil and at the moment will pay as much as they want to charge but if parity was dropped and their markets were flooded then the shoe would change feet so to speak and those markets would then start bargining and push the prices down.

This is the reason that they are protecting parity, no other reason.

Any company that is floated on the stock exchange is run by crooks that all they are out to do is extract as much money out of their customers so they can increase dividends for their stock holders...........and this is why Oil companies are greedy.


WHO HERE HAS STOCKS in an oil company or 2 or an oil exploration company.

If you do then your part of the problem as Im sure you dont have them just so the company your invested in doesnt go broke, You want to make money off it, you want a dividend and that is why this is a visious circle.

What the government is doing is just skimming off the top........like thieves and not really putting back into roads etc.

With record fuel prices, why are we still paying tolls on roads......they tell us that it is because of the rise in prices due to the rise in fuel prices etc etc..... Thats the visious circle again.

As much as I hate Hybrid vehicals (I think they are stupid, unnessesary, ugly and just a fad and dont use much less if any less than modern petrol/diesel engined cars the same size), I still think that if you have a small car that just runs you to work, it should run on electricity and could be charged from a wind turbine on the roof of your house for a smaller carbon Blah blah footprint.

I thought this started off okay, a bit of sense, it then changes you have to look at the reality of it.

I recall speaking/dealing with a bloke in the oil exploration business some years ago, he told me that the was more oil here in oz than anyone in government was letting on about, the mob he worked for, were drilling locating, testing then capping each find. Yes i know someone on here will probably discount that one.

But as someone earlier put, the iraqi business , i think it was LAL. there is more oil under their deserts than all the arabs combined. but they have exported less than when sadam was still operating, an OPEC plot or an arab one, who knows, there are probably a thousand conspiracy theories.
The bottom line, is your average persons ability to afford things, as the flow on effect from higher fuel prices is very noticeable. Eventually the weekend drives will be taken off most families agendas, as the struggle to make a living and provide for the family gets harder and harder,
We all just have to grin and bear it,stop driving unless absolutely necessary, at least cityites are fine they have public transport.

john

Originally Posted by JohnE

I thought this started off okay, a bit of sense, it then changes you have to look at the reality of it.

I recall speaking/dealing with a bloke in the oil exploration business some years ago, he told me that the was more oil here in oz than anyone in government was letting on about, the mob he worked for, were drilling locating, testing then capping each find. Yes i know someone on here will probably discount that one.

But as someone earlier put, the iraqi business , i think it was LAL. there is more oil under their deserts than all the arabs combined. but they have exported less than when sadam was still operating, an OPEC plot or an arab one, who knows, there are probably a thousand conspiracy theories.
The bottom line, is your average persons ability to afford things, as the flow on effect from higher fuel prices is very noticeable. Eventually the weekend drives will be taken off most families agendas, as the struggle to make a living and provide for the family gets harder and harder,
We all just have to grin and bear it,stop driving unless absolutely necessary, at least cityites are fine they have public transport.

john

The Iraq thing was about human rights more than oil and anyone who believes otherwise is just pandering the conspiricists.

As far as the unreported oil deposits, I have heard similar but to add to that was that they are either in places that would cost too much at the moment to extract or it is not of sufficient quality or quantities to make it viable at the moment.

As far as public transport goes, I have to nearly walk half way to work to then wait 30mins for a bus to take 15mins to go the 7kms to my work.......I think I will drive as I also dont have a pushbike but are considering another motor bike.

All this making us a poorer society will do is centralise the everyone again and cause outer fringe suburbs to turn into getto's and inner suburbs will become the middle and upperclass area as well as it will mean the end of the house and big backyard, driving hundreds of Kms off road for holidays etc.

And a littles closer in time than we all thought it would.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Isn't that what I said ?

No, what you said was:

Originally Posted by Lotz-a-Landies

..because the excise on diesel is higher than the excise on petrol.

but I was agreeing with you, in that the Fed Govt has no incentive to see higher fuel prices as the amount it receives per litre remains the same, at 38.143 cpl. In fact, as fuel prices rise sales volumes fall (5% down during the first 3mths of 2008) and the Govt get less revenue. The GST amount may rise, but all of this goes to State Govts, and each state has no real say in how the Feds want to divvy up this money. But ABN holders can claim back the GST on fuel as an input cost anyway, so it has little impact on the overall cost of commercial Road or Rail transport. Govt taxes, Levies and Excises on fuels are a necessary pain, but they have little to to with current fuel price rises.

Quote:
Australian oil companies DO NOT buy PREMIUM GRADE crude oil! In fact Australia produces around 70% of its own oil and imports about 30%

[quote=solmanic;761929]Correct me if I'm wrong, but that statistics page doesn't give any indication of what percentage of oil Australia imports vs domestic production for domestic use. It only refers to oil exports and imports.

I simply guesstimated the percentage of imports Vs exports as a % and it was not close to the 70/30.
I would think that most oil not exported from Aus is used here in petroleum refining ??.

Originally Posted by mcrover

The Iraq thing was about human rights more than oil and anyone who believes otherwise is just pandering the conspiricists.
...

O.K then, if it's about human rights, tell me why we aren't in Zimbabwe? West Papua?, Sudan?, Burma (Myanmar)? and even East Timor under the Indonesians?

Originally Posted by mcrover

As far as the unreported oil deposits, I have heard similar but to add to that was that they are either in places that would cost too much at the moment to extract or it is not of sufficient quality or quantities to make it viable at the moment.

Yes, I was chatting to an engineer from the UK that is heavily into the extraction of oil and he agrees with this. There is oil under there which is only becoming viable as the cost of oil goes up.