Reply With QuoteThat video was dead interesting. I wonder if it makes any difference performance wise? If not, I would be prepared to give it a go at those prices.
Fossicker
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...001021,00.html
interestingIT looks like petrol, kind of smells like petrol, and at 40c a litre cheaper than the real drop, it's proving too tempting to pass up.
Cash-strapped drivers are risking damage to their engines to top up their tanks with a new 85 per cent ethanol fuel blend at the first bowser of its kind in Australia.
It's a desperate measure, but with petrol pushing the $1.70 a litre mark, the times are already desperate.
The United service station on Victoria Rd at Rozelle has become the first in the country to carry the new e85 blend, which contains just 15 per cent regular petrol.
The latest sugar cane tonic was selling for 124.9c yesterday, well below the 166.9c for regular unleaded at the Mobil across the road.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY4YiEBnJ_8
YarnMaster
That video was dead interesting. I wonder if it makes any difference performance wise? If not, I would be prepared to give it a go at those prices.
RoverLord
The video confirms what I have suspected - that the risk of running ethanol is overstated. But it will vary with the model of the car, and may well vary even for a single model, simply because the parts in contact with the fuel are not specified to be alcohol resistant, so the supplier may well have some batches that are and some that are not.
The other point that needs to be noted is that ethanol contains less energy per litre than does petrol, around 10% from memory, and unless you have an engine whose ecu takes advantage of the higher octane rating of the ethanol blend, then you can expect worse economy (as well as less power), and this erodes the apparent fuel saving.
If you are running a carburetter engine, then it will almost certainly need the jets changing to run satisfactorily on a high ethanol blend.
John
John
JDNSW
1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol
YarnMaster
Thought it would be too good to be true! Think I'll stick to Premium!
Originally Posted by JDNSW
OldBushie
haven't the Brazilians been running E100 for years? Panda's old 'olden engine couldn't be that different technology wise to some of the old bombs they run over their, apart from the fact it isn't a VW beetle.
Swaggie
Exactly. On an old engine there isn't much to lose. Even if you have to replace fuel lines, carby floats, pump/diaphram, jets down the track, you would probably still be ahead.
Ethanol is partially oxidated, which is the reason it doesn't contain quite as much energy as normal petrol. However this should mean that it burns quite cleanly, even if the engine isn't quite set up for it.
Starting on E100 can be a bit difficult apparently, and special carbies may be needed.
RoverLord
Pretty much the case - bar finding out inopportunely that part of your fuel system is soluble in alcohol, any dramas are very unlikely. But with a carburetter engine, not correctly jetted, the mixture will be effectively pretty weak. While it should run OK, starting cold can be a bit of a problem, and both economy and power will be down. Ethanol seems to be less fussy about the mixture than petrol, and certainly burns more cleanly.
Two other problems not mentioned above are that ethanol is slightly more prone to icing than petrol, and the real potential problem - it is miscible with water in all proportions, and is hygroscopic. This means that there is no way of separating water from the fuel, and it attracts water. Apart from the problem that you never know how much of the fuel you just paid for is water (and if the service station proprietor knows, he is certainly not going to tell you), this potential water content is likely to corrode any part of the fuel system that is corrodible. To avoid the problem, the best solution is to not leave fuel unused in your tank for long periods and to keep it full, especially if you live in a damp climate.
John
John
JDNSW
1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol
YarnMaster
What are you trying to tell me Dobbo
OldBushie
That the low cost of an old holden straight six, you could replace the engine every few months and still make a profit.What are you trying to tell me Dobbo
Swaggie
Well, I will speak from the point of view of preparation of a methanol fuelled car, speedway midgets in particular. Methanol and Ethanol are pretty much identical I think. JD may offer some professional insight here. Methanol against motor spirit, you require about a 2:1 mixture of methanol to air by weight to give correct mixture. Methanol runs better when a rich mixture, so a bit of an increase of fuel volume is good. General rule? An increase in jet area of 1.6:1 is required. 1 being the jet area of a motor spirit fuelled vehicle. You also need a fuel supply system capable of supplying the extra fuel. Pump, fuel lines, needle aperture, float bowl, carburettor passages, as well as jet size. If the Rozelle shop is selling 85% ethanol then a considerable amount of modification and tuning would normally be necessary to use the stuff. My speedway fuel was usually Shell A which I got free. From memory this stuff is about 92-94% methanol. The rest is some 100 octane Avgas, some lubricating oil, some benzol or nitrobenzole. The Avgas is used to dissolve the lube oil to a form which will dissolve in methanol and is needed to lubricate valve stems as the methanol washes the oil off them. You will have to ask an oil company chemist what the benzol is for. Methanol burns slower so a lot more ignition advance is required. Offy midgets used about 30-35 degrees initial advance and being a pure racing engine had no vacuum or centrifugal advance. Could be a bitch to push start on a track with poor traction.
Running so rich also produced problems with unburnt fuel getting into the engine oil. I used to drain the oil immediately after every meeting and test it for fuel and water(methanol is hygroscopic). also used to drain the fuel and hook up a can of motor spirit and pump it through until all methanol was purged from the fuel system. This prevented corrosion.
From the above you can guess that I am not enamoured of the prospect of having to use alcohol fuel in my daily driver.
URSUSMAJOR
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