Thread: Is Bigger Really Better?

Originally Posted by Slunnie

So you're saying that the whole reason behind this is because you don't consider Nissan diesel motors to be modern? Surely there's a more technical explanation.

Variable vane turbos gives boost at low revs without compromising the high speed boost. (also solved by twin turbos, one at low speeds one high) These can give turbo boost from very low revs.
Common rail ijection
High pressure fuel injection
Engine management of injector timing, fuel pressure and turbo timing and boost.

.............For a start.

Cool, I considered the Nissan 3.0TD to be modern, though not quite as variable turbos. Thats the thing which will probably make the big difference with the lot that are coming out these days, though interestingly I read some motor is coming with sequential turbos which will do a similar thing - a trick the Mazda RX7 was using years ago.

Theres discussion that a smaller motor can make the power of a bigger motor with state of the art technology and chipping remaps etc, something that has been mentioned a couple of times by different people. I look at it and think that ok perhaps that may be the case, especially with the use of variable turbos down low.

But thats not working on the assumption of all things being equal. If we take a full sized 4WD motor and apply the same techology then is the smaller motor still going to keep up. I doubt. The sad thing is that there are very few full sized 4WD motors that are state of the art like there are in the smaller motors.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

If we take a full sized 4WD motor and apply the same techology then is the smaller motor still going to keep up. I doubt. The sad thing is that there are very few full sized 4WD motors that are state of the art like there are in the smaller motors.

I thought that the new LC200 TDV8 would give much higher output that it did, given that its capacity of 4.5L was as much as the bigger sixes.
But Jap motors have stll not caught up to the euro diesels even with variable vane turbos and two at that.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

Theres discussion that a smaller motor can make the power of a bigger motor with state of the art technology and chipping remaps etc, something that has been mentioned a couple of times by different people. I look at it and think that ok perhaps that may be the case, especially with the use of variable turbos down low.

But thats not working on the assumption of all things being equal. If we take a full sized 4WD motor and apply the same techology then is the smaller motor still going to keep up. I doubt. The sad thing is that there are very few full sized 4WD motors that are state of the art like there are in the smaller motors.

The thing that really seals the deal as to what goes in what is probably that yu cant fit a 26 ltr engine in a mini so they need to do things like fit big turbo's or superchargers to get the numbers the bigger engines get.

I cant understand why they dont get much more power, economy and trque out of these modern V6 and V8 Turbo Diesels when you consider the numbers they will get out of 3,4 & 5 Cyl turbo diesels.

Originally Posted by CaverD3

I thought that the new LC200 TDV8 would give much higher output that it did, given that its capacity of 4.5L was as much as the bigger sixes.
But Jap motors have stll not caught up to the euro diesels even with variable vane turbos and two at that.

I bet toyota only put out 150kw so they can easily bring out new models by chipping it all the way to 200kw. They are going to make a mint getting toyota buyers to buy the new model because it has 155kw next year, and then 160 the year after that.

If a small engine has the same NM and kw at the same rpm at a larger engine then it is the same driving experience. It coulde be a 1.5CC engine but the graphs are the same then you should not be able to tell the difference. BUT a slower rpm engine will likely last longer. Thats why the RR engine uses CGI? carbon whatever the hell to make a smaller lighter engine with big output. 220kw from 3.6L is excellent. Ford are making the same engine a 4.4L.

Also its worth noting that new smaller CRD with heaps of power like the bmws 3.0L 220kw diesel and jags twin turbo 3L v6 (with the large turbo for low revs and the small turbo for high revs) have the ability to use more fuel. Old diesels were good towing and sand because they did not have the ability to consume more fuel and produce more power, they relied on nm. But with electrics in diesels, electric crystals and the ability to squirt 7 times per stroke and vary the volume, small diesels can now give more power and they do it by consumption. I have heard of the nissan 2.5L CRD using 17L/100 towing, not saying it didnt do a good job, but it has the ability to play with the larger engines and use the same fuel as the larger engines.

The big advantage is not that you can have lots of power from a small engine, but rather when you are not using lots of power and using it for around town, it behaves like a small engine in consumption. So you get the best of both worlds, an efficient small diesel most of the time and heaps of power along with massive fuel usage increase when you need it.

I still think the verdict is out on small modern diesel lasting a long time.

I have been following this post for the last couple of days with interest and now am compelled to throw my two bobs worth in. I am sure that most engine manufactures do not rate their new engines at maximum potential to give them more ceiling to 'Uprate'. Sadly land rover has lost the plot with giving the defender a decent grunty engine to keep up with the Opposition. Even the Freelander has more power,(not sure on torque output though). I have a 97 defender 130 single cab ute as my work vehicle and love the thing but always wanted more horse power. Even a headwind makes the poor old girl struggle.

I bought a TD5 130 twin cab in 2007 to set up as a tourer and the 1st thing i did was pull the engine out to allow me to set up an engine conversion that would give me what i wanted in a vehicle. I am putting in a 6.6LTR Duramax diesel with its 6 speed allison auto and adapting it to the LT230. Thought about the rangie V8 diesel but they are not available second hand yet and wanted something a bit more modern than a mechanical injected jap diesel or the older indirect injected 6.2 & 6.5 chevies. The Duramax makes 360 HP and just under 900mn of torque so i reckon head winds and 200 series owners wont worry me. A big V8 diesel and keep the revs low with the double overdrive and i should still get resonable economy if i can keep off the loud pedal.
mcrover wrote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slunnie
Theres discussion that a smaller motor can make the power of a bigger motor with state of the art technology and chipping remaps etc, something that has been mentioned a couple of times by different people. I look at it and think that ok perhaps that may be the case, especially with the use of variable turbos down low.

But thats not working on the assumption of all things being equal. If we take a full sized 4WD motor and apply the same techology then is the smaller motor still going to keep up. I doubt. The sad thing is that there are very few full sized 4WD motors that are state of the art like there are in the smaller motors.

The thing that really seals the deal as to what goes in what is probably that yu cant fit a 26 ltr engine in a mini so they need to do things like fit big turbo's or superchargers to get the numbers the bigger engines get.

I cant understand why they dont get much more power, economy and trque out of these modern V6 and V8 Turbo Diesels when you consider the numbers they will get out of 3,4 & 5 Cyl turbo diesels.

Check out the specs on the new 3.0L engine that Jag is getting soon and then hopefully Disco 3. 600nm of torque and apparently 202kw for the Jag spec's!

Cheers Gaz

Originally Posted by Gaz69

I bought a TD5 130 twin cab in 2007 to set up as a tourer and the 1st thing i did was pull the engine out to allow me to set up an engine conversion that would give me what i wanted in a vehicle. I am putting in a 6.6LTR Duramax diesel with its 6 speed allison auto and adapting it to the LT230. Thought about the rangie V8 diesel but they are not available second hand yet and wanted something a bit more modern than a mechanical injected jap diesel or the older indirect injected 6.2 & 6.5 chevies. The Duramax makes 360 HP and just under 900mn of torque

Please keep us up to date with how this comes together. It would be an excellent setup I reckon.