Gippslands burning again

**Bushie** · 1st February 2009, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by mcrover

Well or 100 years or more they were allowing cattle to remove the undergrowth in the bush up there but apparently that is bad for the enviroment but back then even though they had fires it was faught with napsacks, wet hessian bags and fire rakes, now days they still have trouble controling it with 100s of millions of $ worth of aircraft and ground crews with state of the art equipment.

With some fires it will never matter what type of equipment/manpower is available, as they will be too intense. The intensity of fires is measured in kW/m (ie how many kilowatts is released per metre of fire front) The 1983 Ash Wednesday fires were in the order of 110,000KW/m - just think about trying to stop even 1km of that amount of energy release. Fires in eucalypt forest use a process called spotting to spread, where embers blown ahead of the fire start a new fire, there is documented evidence of this occurring from the NSW coast out to Gabo Island. Even with aircraft and 'state of the art' equipment it all comes down to a man/woman on the ground who has to go in an finish the job. Over my 37 years involvement with fire fighting I've come to appreciate that a fire fighter has to have many qualities, being suicidal isn't one of them.

Originally Posted by mcrover

The cattle didnt remove the threat altogether but they made access much better and it made for much slower bunring fires which were much easier to contain.

I'm not going to debate or question this, but unfortunately cattle have been removed from many areas (whether it applies to these fires I don't know). However from the photos posted by Rovercare these weren't particularly high intensity fires (evidenced by the amount of tree canopy left) but they were probably still too intense to stand in front of, hence the reliance on aircraft. Vic was no doubt lucky they weren't accompanied by strong winds and a change (as the Ash Wednesday fire were)

Originally Posted by mcrover

I cant fathum how allowing a fire to burn with such intensity that it removes everything and sterilizes the soil so nothing grows for decades is good for the enviroment but apparently, more intelegent people than me and others with the same veiws no better so have cancelled leases.

Believe me there will be grass coming through after the fires rain. In 1994 there were concerns that The Royal National Park just south of Sydney would never recover from this,

but it did, and rapidly. Areas that are slow growing, like the high country will naturally take longer to recover, but even if the soil is sterilised (to some depth) it gets recolonised. Some species such as mountain ash need fire to kill the parent tree to allow the seedlings to grow, too frequent fires are a problem. Eucalypts also recover via lignotubers and epicormic buds or they may be prolific seeders.

Originally Posted by mcrover

This is just one reason why it is worse now than it has been in the past, lack of access to management tracks by the public so that they grow over and limiting movement of native animals by fencing in is also part of the problem IMHO.

Limiting access to management trails doesn't necessarily mean they will grow over, if they grow over it's either due to poor maintenance, or they want them to grow over. In the coroners report on the 2003 Canberra fires lack of access was highlighted, but lets be honest what we may see as a good 4WD track isn't going to make a good control/acces track for firefighting resources and vice versa.

Martyn

**ivery819** · 1st February 2009, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bushie

Areas that are slow growing, like the high country will naturally take longer to recover, but even if the soil is sterilised (to some depth) it gets recolonised. Some species such as mountain ash need fire to kill the parent tree to allow the seedlings to grow, too frequent fires are a problem. Eucalypts also recover via lignotubers and epicormic buds or they may be prolific seeders.
Martyn

What appears to be happening in the Snowy Mountains is shown in this photo I took a few weeks ago on the Geehi Walls Trail. The original timber regeneration (if any )is being choked out by the understorey of new rubbish. It will be a miracle if there is not another fire in the near future with even more devastation.
The 'experts' are predicting that we will end up with a weedy area with a limited timber mono-culture that is nothing like the beautiful alpine forests of old.

**Hymie** · 1st February 2009, 09:28 PM

And it's no wonder there have been fires, I'm just astounded there haven't been more. Sunday of the Australia day weekend I was taking a tour through Coopers Creek near Walhalla.
From memory the day was a warm 35 or so degrees and the Thomson River at Coopers had around 100 or so people swimming. With about 10 4WD's parked bumper deep in the river, (why any sane person would PARK in 600mm of water is beyond me).
At one campsite we went past there was a fire around 3 meters across and piled about a meter high with wood burning merrily away with not a soul in sight.
I stopped and removed a Jerry of petrol and 3 Motorcycles from 5 meters to about 25 meters away from the blaze and looked for some water to damp it down with.
A Parks Vic ranger turned up and started abusing ME as he though it was my fire. I set him straight and he called the Fireys to put it out. While he was there he took the rego's of the cars parked at the site.
Me, I hope somebody go's to jail for being an irresponsible *****.

**EchiDna** · 1st February 2009, 09:51 PM

glad to see all are ok from the AULRO gippy clan

As for post fire recoveries, well it is dependent on when the rain comes. after studying bush recovery post fires and also having first hand experience living through the ash wednesday fires of 1983, I can say that we had about 150mm of ash on the ground and no re-growth for about three months, excluding the trees which were shooting out new growth about 2 weeks after the fire - this is a big risk period for any surviving stock as they have little to eat except the fresh growth on the trees and they might just force themselves to eat it, poisoning themselves.

Since 1983, certain species did not recover as well as others (i.e. softwood species like blackwood), but the biggest difference was the emergence of weed species in the initial re-growth period - capeweed, foxgloves, scotch thistles, blackberries and gauze were everywhere, but the native grasses (excluding the blackberries) have won the battle during through the prevailing dry periods and now the property is almost entirely endemic species once again. The odd pinus crapiata has sprung up, but they die each winter

good luck with the cleanup guys, I'd be there to lend a hand if I was close by....

**bussy1963** · 1st February 2009, 09:55 PM

To our gippsland friends

Being a ex Maffra boy i can understand what your going thru currently.

I did 20 years as a volunteer with the C.F.A. and yeah it was bloody heartbreaking seeing people loss property.

As for the guy in East Brizvegas say do fuel reduction burns well he has a point in some areas yeah might be ok but if they tried it in pine plantations well most of know what inpact on the economy that would have.

Pine and Gum trees are the most volatile timbers when they get a match near them. No jobs for timber workers or even A.P.M paper if we loss the plantations.

I have it on good authority that the police know who lit the bloody fire but there just gathering more evidence before they haul his ass in. This info was given to me from a serving member and mate of mine in the valley.

Also i think the Victorian members should organize a day to go to the affected area and give a helping hand to our fellow members cleanup or whatever is required. Maybe in a few weeks would be the best time.

LETS DO IT GUYS.

**Pierre** · 2nd February 2009, 12:16 PM

Happy to do what we can to help - just call.

Pete

**bussy1963** · 2nd February 2009, 05:49 PM

Ok everybody

Lets aim for a trip to help out our fellow Gippsland members. i was thinking maybe the weekend of 7 and 8th of march. Expression of interests would be great. Possible meeting point Longwarry Service Centre east bound on highway.

If the Gippsland guys know of anyone in need of a hand let us know.

**rangieman** · 2nd February 2009, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by bussy1963

Ok everybody

Lets aim for a trip to help out our fellow Gippsland members. i was thinking maybe the weekend of 7 and 8th of march. Expression of interests would be great. Possible meeting point Longwarry Service Centre east bound on highway.

If the Gippsland guys know of anyone in need of a hand let us know.

Yep put me down for a helping hand

**Pierre** · 3rd February 2009, 04:04 PM

And us, me, son, kids.

Equipment?

Pete

mcrover · 3rd February 2009, 04:35 PM

Couldnt be a worse weekend for me, I have to work and be on call that weekend, one of our biggest comps, but if the date changes then I will be in

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