Thread: Your 4WD and its crash protection

Originally Posted by taff

thats the nail on the head.
any new car from a large reputable company should fare better than a much older car or it would mean we are going backwards.
i'd also like to see an early espace in a similar test to see how it compares

Cannot see it on YouTube however 5TH gear did crash an older Espace into another car. Result was not good if you were in the Espace.

Also this show has an editoral stance of not liking 4x4's despite some of the presenters driving them as own cars.

Remember the Ford EXPLODER. Firestone got most of the blame for all the roll overs. The most common factor found was people were driving these bigger cars a lot more aggressively than they normally would. The might is right attitude, I'm bigger, stronger get out of my way and surprise when I wrench on the steering wheel and stand on the brakes and try to drive my 3 ton 4x4 like a sedan it rolls over. firestone really got the sh...y end of the stick in the senate investigation. Apparently the tyres they supplied to ford weren't up to the aggressive style of driving the former sedan driving soccer mums were putting them under.
Most of the accidents were investigated with driver error as the main fault. Drivers more agro than they usually would be in a smaller car etc.
Someone had to get blamed because so many were killed. Ford half dodged the bullet with the tyre fault. Firestone recalled millions of tyres (only in the US).
BUT people were still at fault, not driving within the vehicle's limits and thier own. All the Aussies i know that own them have never come close to replicating anything like the Americans.
So drive safe and with luck an idiot won't kill you.

Originally Posted by Olive Drab

Remember the Ford EXPLODER. Firestone got most of the blame for all the roll overs. The most common factor found was people were driving these bigger cars a lot more aggressively than they normally would. The might is right attitude, I'm bigger, stronger get out of my way and surprise when I wrench on the steering wheel and stand on the brakes and try to drive my 3 ton 4x4 like a sedan it rolls over. firestone really got the sh...y end of the stick in the senate investigation. Apparently the tyres they supplied to ford weren't up to the aggressive style of driving the former sedan driving soccer mums were putting them under.
Most of the accidents were investigated with driver error as the main fault. Drivers more agro than they usually would be in a smaller car etc.
Someone had to get blamed because so many were killed. Ford half dodged the bullet with the tyre fault. Firestone recalled millions of tyres (only in the US).
BUT people were still at fault, not driving within the vehicle's limits and thier own. All the Aussies i know that own them have never come close to replicating anything like the Americans.
So drive safe and with luck an idiot won't kill you.

I interpret this as indicating the tyres were TOO good, crappy tyres would have slipped, good tyres griped the surface but the momentum kept the vehicle moving. If the bottom of a vehicle stops but the top doesn't, a roll over is inevetable.

Originally Posted by lardy

i dont know that that is strictly true in side impact tests defender was top 3 in a department of transport(u.k.) testing session compared to other marques, although because of its high point of gravity it would tend to fall over they felt it all surviveable !
this testing was 06 i believe

While ROLL OVERS are a significant "Mechanism of Injury" a term used to describe potential injuries threat arising from a particular event, most car Vs car roll overs including 4WDs are when the 4WD it T-Boned, that is struck on the side by another car. In this instance, the other car wedges under the higher vehicle and tips it over. So much energy is dissipated in turning the 4WD on it's side, (overcoming weight & gravity) that little energy remains to impact on the occupants. This posture also leaves the whole underside of the 4WD (chassis & transmission) to act as a shield, which is a lot stronger than relying on the doors to shield occupants.

In my experience as a paramedic, side impacts where 4WDs roll result in no significant injury to the occupants of the 4WD. Now a rally style ROLL OVER on high speed gravel is obviously another, altogether different kind of rollover, but I'll limit these comments to car vs car crashes.

As an aside, to add an additional safety point to 4WDs, they give the driver more exit points in crash avoidence. That is to say, they can easily mount a kerb at high speed and evade a collision, whereas a sedan is more likely to see it's front end collapse underneath it if it struck a kerb at high speed, resulting is risk of flipping or sudden deceleration with occupant vs interior of vehicle type injuries.

Originally Posted by V8Ian

I interpret this as indicating the tyres were TOO good, crappy tyres would have slipped, good tyres griped the surface but the momentum kept the vehicle moving. If the bottom of a vehicle stops but the top doesn't, a roll over is inevetable.

These are the crash reports from the US DOT site:

Complaints Summary


Make: FORD Model: EXPLORER Year: 1994 Complaint Number: 724008 Summary: LEFT REAR TIRE SEPARATED WHILE DRIVING ON HIGHWAY. DRIVER ABLE TO REACH SHOULDER AND CALL REPAIR SERVICE. APPROX. 3 HRS. LATER DURING SAME TRIP, RIGHT REAR TIRE SEPARATED, DRIVER NOT ABLE TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OF VEHICLE. VEHICLE SWERVED VIOLENTLY BACK AND FORTH THEN ROLLED 3 OR 4 TIMES. TWO INJURED OCCUPANTS TAKEN TO HOSPITAL. VEHICLE TOTALED. *( DOT NUMBER: VDHL1M0094 TIRE SIZE: P235/75R15 )


Complaints Summary


Make: FORD Model: EXPLORER Year: 1994 Complaint Number: 866981 Summary: WHILE DRIVING 65MPH ONE OF THE REAR FIRESTONE ATX TIRES BLEW OUT, CAUSING THE FORD EXPLORER TO ROLLOVER FOUR TIMES . VEHICLE WAS TOTALED. *AK *SLC


Complaints Summary


Make: FORD Model: EXPLORER Year: 1994 Complaint Number: 727236 Summary: I HAD LEASED THE VEHICLE NEW FROM 6/94-6/96. BOUGHT OUT THE LEASE AT THE END OF IT. WAS DRIVING NORTH ON I-95. MY FRIEND WAS DRIVING. BEGAN CROSSING THE SAVANNAH RIVER BRIDGE. HEARD A LOUD NOISE AND "THUMP" AT REAR OF CAR. IT SKIDDED OUT OF CONTROL AND SLAMMED AGAINST THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BRIDGE. THAT THREW THE CAR HEADING ACROSS THE BRIDGE TOWARDS THE OTHER SIDE. WE WERE HIT BY AN 18-WHEEL SEMI-TRAILER WHICH THREW US, CAUSED US TO SPIN, ROLL, THEN THE CAR SLID ON IT'S RIGHT SIDE ANOTHER 100 YARDS DOWN THE BRIDGE. ALL 3 PASSENGERS WERE WEARING SEATBELTS AND SURVIVED. THE CAR WAS TOTALED.ING( DOT NUMBER: )


Complaints Summary


Make: FORD Model: EXPLORER Year: 1994 Complaint Number: 729422 Summary: DRIVER NORTHBOUND ON I-95. RIGHT REAR TIRE DETREADS, DRIVER LOST CONTROL, VEERED LEFT INTO MEDIAN, ROLLED OVER TWO TIMES, COMING TO REST ON WHEELS IN SOUTHBOUND LANES. BELTED DRIVER EJECTED AND DIED AT SCENE.( DOT NUMBER: VDHLIMO074 TIRE SIZE: P235/75R15 )


Complaints Summary


Make: FORD Model: EXPLORER Year: 1994 Complaint Number: 554985 Summary: THE LEFT REAR TIRE BLEWOUT WHILE DRIVING CAUSING THE VEHICLE TO VEER TO THE LEFT PARTIALLY INTO THE INSIDE LANE, THE DRIVER STEERED TO THE RIGHT LOOSING CONTROL OF THE VEHICLE, THE VEHICLE SLID SIDEWAYS FOR ABOUT 125 FEET AND OVERTURNED 3.5 TIMES BEFORE COMING TO REST, ONE PERSON WAS KILLED, TWO PEOPLE SUSTAINED NON INCAPACITATING INJURIES AND ONE PERSON HAD INCAPACITATING INJURIES (BRIDGESTONE/FIRESTONE P235/75R15, RADIAL ATX M/S VDHL1M0254 LEFT REAR). NLM


These are typical of most of the crash reports.

On another website in the US for tyre recall/failure reports they had approx 200 reported failures of BFG AT's of any size and over 3,000 of the Firestone wilderness tyres, only of the size used on the Ford Exploders. Some of the reports were bloody hard to read, entire familys killed on straight lengths of interstate highways for no apparent reason, the tyres tread just fell off. Firestone has a lot to answer for.

If as much money was spent in teaching people driving skills than has been spent trying to save people after they crash and if money was spent making cars handle,stop better other than making them have more gadgits to play with we would all be better off. Pat

Originally Posted by jimbo110

If anyone missed this... This is REAL WORLD testing that says the defender is one of the 4 safest vehicles on UK roads - and the other 3 are 4x4s as well.

So regardless of what crash testing says, these are the facts (in the UK).

Statistically, you have the least chance of being seriously/fatally injured if you are driving a defender/landcruiser/jackaroo/merc_ML.

Now there may be confounding factors? Owners of these vehicles may drive slower than average and/or better drivers, but nevertheless...

Originally Posted by isuzurover

If anyone missed this... This is REAL WORLD testing that says the defender is one of the 4 safest vehicles on UK roads - and the other 3 are 4x4s as well.

So regardless of what crash testing says, these are the facts (in the UK).

Statistically, you have the least chance of being seriously/fatally injured if you are driving a defender/landcruiser/jackaroo/merc_ML.

Now there may be confounding factors? Owners of these vehicles may drive slower than average and/or better drivers, but nevertheless...

I'd go for superior drivers, but that's just my opinion.................