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Thread: Extra Boost vs Gas

  1. #1
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    Extra Boost vs Gas

    Hi all,
    Just wondering about your thoughts, especially the technically minded, on this one...

    Increasing boost pressure (and fueling) increases horsepower - its a no brainer really.
    LPG gas systems in diesels do too.
    Are the extra stresses on the engine the same?
    I mean, say the engine outputs the same horsepower in both scenarios, surely the stresses would be the same (given we're not overfuelling)
    Love to know your thoughts...

  2. #2
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    JDNSW is online now RoverLord Silver Subscriber
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    There has been a lot of discussion on adding gas here (and a search will find it). But looking at your question objectively, increasing boost and fuelling is in theory unlimited until something breaks. Increasing fuelling, either injected or gas, can only be done to a limited extent before there is insufficient air to burn properly, and further increases are inneffective.

    It is claimed that small amounts of gas give more efficient combustion, plus the advantage that gas is cheaper than diesel, but for the reason given, you will not get a dramatic increase in power, which you can with increased boost and fuelling. The other method of increasing power is to reduce the temperature of the intake air - i.e. a bigger intercooler, which will have the same effect as increasing the boost, plus the advantage of slightly improved cooling.

    As far as the overall stress on the engine goes, no you cannot say they are the same because the horsepower is the same. Remember that the horsepower is only the maximum power; the stress on the engine will depend on the rpm at which this is developed, and the stress may be most critical at, for example, maximum torque, which will be when the highest peak pressure and hence greatest stress on the mechanical components exists. Then there is the question of thermal stress, both localised (which depends very much on the rate of combustion) and overall, which will depend on the relationship between cooling effectiveness and waste heat; consider that the cooling effectiveness and power both increase with rpm, but certainly not at the same rate.

    You can be certain that whatever you do to increase power will increase the stress on the engine, effectively using up some of the manufacturer's safety margin. How much of this you use with any power boost is not very predictable and impossible to measure by any practical method. About all you can say is something like "quite a few people have done 'X' without any problems showing up, so I ought to be able to copy them". But you need to make sure you copy them exactly - if you do not you are doing something that does not have this assurance.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

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    Thanks John, a very helpful reply indeed!
    I'm going a bit in unchartered territory most likely...
    I've installed a massive intercooler, boost is at 20psi, and the boost compensator tweaked to help sppol up at lower RPM.
    I'm purchasing an electronic boost controller with solenoid, rather than the cheapy bleed type I currently have because I'm noticing the wastegate is opening gradually from about 12psi and cutting the torque. I know this because on some really cold mornings the wastegate sticks shut and the torque is quite phenomenal! More like a modern 2.5 litre diesel...

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    what motor are we talking about here?

    cheers phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by brianwood View Post
    Thanks John, a very helpful reply indeed!
    I'm going a bit in unchartered territory most likely...
    I've installed a massive intercooler, boost is at 20psi, and the boost compensator tweaked to help sppol up at lower RPM.
    I'm purchasing an electronic boost controller with solenoid, rather than the cheapy bleed type I currently have because I'm noticing the wastegate is opening gradually from about 12psi and cutting the torque. I know this because on some really cold mornings the wastegate sticks shut and the torque is quite phenomenal! More like a modern 2.5 litre diesel...
    Are you serious???? you really are FOS..... it hought the magnets was funny, but you have a problem.

    Std a 300tdi turbo boost pressure is set at 1 bar and if you wind the waste gate right in or shut it off via vacuum, they produce about 18psi max.... i know as i have done it... was a waste of time as the increase in HP is NONE...

    The only was to gain HP from a 300tdi is to wind the pump up...

    Next time do more research before you try the Magnets and snake oil out....

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    I have seen over 22psi on my 300tdi with a failed waste gate actuator.

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    clean32 is offline AULRO Holiday Reward Points Winner!
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    at the risk of feeding the troll

    na cant be shaged

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    Gas makes a big and worthwhile increase to both economy and torque. Pat

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    Thanks Clarkey...
    Fact is I have a VDO boost guage and when wastegate sticks the boost goes well over 25psi...
    Can't help you if yours only goes to 18psi (must be pretty sluggish...), but I have done some injector pump mods, big intercooler and 2.5inch exhaust.

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