Nearly eight-in-10 want city 4WD ban

Every time I travel with the family into Melbourne along the transit lane of the Eastern Freeway (carpark) I look in amazement at the cars around me. I would say about 95% of them had one person in the car, most of them commuters.
If they all took the trouble to car pool they could halve the number of cars going into the cities.
I know thats not always possible but I am sure the amount of cars could be reduced by at least 30%, and that would be a start.
My solution would incentive by increasing the transit lanes to 2 lanes, leaving the choice of either spending half your life in traffic, or car pool.

Then again why should I care. The only traffic jam I get is when the neighbour is herding his cows down the road! :tease:

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Originally Posted by waynep

I'd be happy to sit a special licence to have a 4WD - they do it for boats etc. so why not 4WDs ?
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Speak for yourself - I have been driving four wheel drives for almost fifty years, and modern four wheel drives are a lot easier to drive than the car I got my licence on - at least they have synchromesh, and most have power steering and power assisted brakes.

If you are proposing a special licence for a four wheel drive, I suggest that a special licence would be required for any sort of commercial vehicle, remembering that a car licence currently allows you to drive vehicles larger, clumsier and more difficult to drive than many four wheel drives.


And how about the many rural kids who have never driven anything else?


No, I do not support a special licence for four wheel drives.

John

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Speak for yourself - I have been driving four wheel drives for almost fifty years, and modern four wheel drives are a lot easier to drive than the car I got my licence on - at least they have synchromesh, and most have power steering and power assisted brakes.

If you are proposing a special licence for a four wheel drive, I suggest that a special licence would be required for any sort of commercial vehicle, remembering that a car licence currently allows you to drive vehicles larger, clumsier and more difficult to drive than many four wheel drives.


And how about the many rural kids who have never driven anything else?


No, I do not support a special licence for four wheel drives.

John

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I am with JD on this. Most drivers over fifty learned on cars with unassisted steering, poor drum brakes, vastly inferior tyres, manual transmissions with non-synchro first and sometimes second as well. Some learned on sliding gear crash boxes from the 1920's. They learned to anticipate stopping, conserved brakes down steep descents, coped with loose steering, gave hand signals, nursed cars with poor cooling systems in our summer weather and on long hauls. Younger drivers could possibly be called aimers never having driven anything without power steering, always had auto transmissions, powerful four wheel disc brakes, and usually drive with windows closed, air con on and the music playing loudly oblivious to anything going on around them.

A graduated system of commercial vehicle licences is long overdue. No light truck licence until say two years on an open car licence without suspension or cancellation, then another two years of logged experience before stepping up to a medium truck, then a heavy rigid, then semi-trailer, and say another period of logged experience before being able to try for multi-combination. College training in occupational safety, loading techniques and load security, basic maintenance, trouble shooting, and repair to be mandatory. This would elevate truck driving to the status of a skilled trade.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Speak for yourself -John

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I would never presume to speak for anyone else ....;)

But I knew the comment would get a few bites.

Still not convinced it's a bad idea though. Might discourage townies who don't really need one to think twice ? May help lessen these constant cries for 4WDs to be banned ?

Part of the test might be knowledge of and aptitude with the 4WD system, and basic 4WD techiques. How many complain on here about inexperienced people having 4WDs without knowing the basic elements and skills ? for that reason, I don't agree it's the same as commercial vehicles, that basically do drive the same as a car.

I had to go for my boat operators license a while back - easy peasy - don't see this as being a lot different.

People probably already know my thoughts on this matter, but just in case here's the link...

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Originally Posted by spudboy

Gawd :mad:

I'd like to ban city Sunday drivers from coming out into the country and getting in my way. They have no idea how to drive out in the country and should be BANNED, I say.

How much chance have I got - bugger all.

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Originally Posted by rocket scientist

I'm with you .
City drivers in the country are the main cause of accidents in our area.
They have no idea.
Then we have foreign drivers on top of that who have absolutely no respect for our road rules.

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It wasn't true in 2002 that the majority of accidents on country roads involve city drivers and it's not true now.

This extract from this source is just one article I have seen refuting this commonly held belief.
Media Release: TOO MANY LIVES WASTED ON COUNTRY ROADS


An analysis of the 2002 road toll has revealed that country Victorians continue to be over represented in road fatalities, Transport Minister Peter Batchelor said today.

Mr Batchelor said that the country road toll had risen for the fifth consecutive year.

“An analysis of the 2002 country road toll should dispel once and for all the myth that it is city drivers who die on country roads,” Mr Batchelor said.

“Official statistics reveal that it is country drivers who are killed on country roads, and they are dying in unacceptable numbers."

I had no thoughts on accidents when I posted that.

It just annoys the crap out of me when we get people driving 50Km/h in an 80 or even 100Km/h zone, where the roads are very windy (no overtaking points) and they won't pull over and let a huge tailback of traffic pass them. If they are happy at 50 - fine, but they should think about the frustration of the people stuck behind them.

Happens every fine weekend or holiday.

End of rant.....

Sorry Spudboy.

I did a bit too much reading between the lines. :)

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Originally Posted by waynep

I would never presume to speak for anyone else ....;)

But I knew the comment would get a few bites.

Still not convinced it's a bad idea though. Might discourage townies who don't really need one to think twice ? May help lessen these constant cries for 4WDs to be banned ?

Part of the test might be knowledge of and aptitude with the 4WD system, and basic 4WD techiques. How many complain on here about inexperienced people having 4WDs without knowing the basic elements and skills ? for that reason, I don't agree it's the same as commercial vehicles, that basically do drive the same as a car.

I had to go for my boat operators license a while back - easy peasy - don't see this as being a lot different.

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Why not go the whole hog and require a type endorsement on your licence as with aircraft? (Although I should point out that for most light aircraft this requirement was dropped years ago!)

I think the whole concept of special licencing like this is another example of the "qualificationitis" that we seem to have acquired over about the last twenty years - and the value of which is indicated on tonight's news, with the proprietor of a training establishment admitting that his house and four wheel drive came from cash payments for the answers to the exam questions - his establishment "trained" over 50% of those issued with a variety of qualifications (for NSW) in areas such as security guards and dangerous goods handling! Another example is the works of fiction produced as experience logs by learner drivers these days.

It would simply turn into another lot of red tape that does nothing except support more bureaucrats and parasites, just for the slight benefit of making a few people feel better.

You will not (I don't think) have seen me complaining about inexperienced people having four wheel drives - amused at perhaps, but they will learn.

As far as quieting the people wanting to ban four wheel drives - I don't think it would make any difference, except perhaps to encourage them to intensify their efforts.

Might perhaps discourage a few who don't need them from getting four wheel drives - but I don't necessarily think that is good; after all, where are the well looked after second hand ones going to come from if that source goes?

John

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

I am with JD on this. ..........

A graduated system of commercial vehicle licences is long overdue. No light truck licence until say two years on an open car licence without suspension or cancellation, then another two years of logged experience before stepping up to a medium truck, then a heavy rigid, then semi-trailer, and say another period of logged experience before being able to try for multi-combination. College training in occupational safety, loading techniques and load security, basic maintenance, trouble shooting, and repair to be mandatory. This would elevate truck driving to the status of a skilled trade.

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The (post-war) car I got my licence on had mechanical brakes, beam axles; it had synchromesh, sort of, on the top three gears, but two of the three vehicles I learned on had two wheel brakes, none had synchromesh on any gears (although one had planetary gears), and the newest was nearly thirty years old!

I see where you are coming from on commercial licences, but I don't see it happening, at least not like that - there are too many occupations where truck driving, at least of light trucks, is a necessary part of the job. To some extent there is a graduated system once you get to medium rigid licences, but there is already a shortage of drivers, and making it harder to get a licence would not help. Probably help the railways though!

John