Thread: Theory On Closed roads

Originally Posted by willem

So who has the right to lock us out? Whose forest is it?

Now I have to make it clear that I firmly believe that we should care for the environment. We should do everything possible to make the world around us a better place. And I have no time for those who want to wreck and destroy.

But the forest belongs to all Australians. Not just the greenies. Not just the government departments. It belongs to all of us. Not just the bushwalkers who are fit enough to walk long distances. It belongs to all of us! ...

Willem

Closed means closed, go around it and taint every other responsible 4WDer in the country. If you don't like it get active, write to your local member of Parliament (state) and keep following up, they won't start any action until you have about 20 letters in your folder. Join a local 4wd club and get active with the state association, if still no result and you feel you want it changed, stand for parliament yourself and get appointed to the minister for national parks and forests.

The "who owns it", "all Australians" argument holds no water because technically it's Crown land so Betty Windor owns it. (Remember we have a representative Government with Constitutional Monarch and not a Republic.) You are not allowed to enter prisons or military bases or the Parliament, except by open access routes and when they're closed they are closed and you'll be charged with trespass or worse some offence against the Crown if you go around the closed gate/door etc.

Diana

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Willem

Closed means closed, go around it and taint every other responsible 4WDer in the country. If you don't like it get active, write to your local member of Parliament (state) and keep following up, they won't start any action until you have about 20 letters in your folder. Join a local 4wd club and get active with the state association, if still no result and you feel you want it changed, stand for parliament yourself and get appointed to the minister for national parks and forests.

The "who owns it", "all Australians" argument holds no water because technically it's Crown land so Betty Windor owns it. (Remember we have a representative Government with Constitutional Monarch and not a Republic.) You are not allowed to enter prisons or military bases or the Parliament, except by open access routes and when they're closed they are closed and you'll be charged with trespass or worse some offence against the Crown if you go around the closed gate/door etc.

Diana

G'day Diana,

The all Australians own it argument does hold water, even if, technically, 'Betty' owns. Its still our land!

Just in case you hadn't noticed, I do NOT advocate breaking the law and going around gates and making our own tracks. I actually do care about the forest and do everything I can to look after it. I do not tear up tracks and make a mess. And I do take my rubbish out with me.

And I also think that we have a right to visit our own country! People do not have right to tell you or me that we can't go into the forest.

We all know that every government has to take some land to be able to operate properly. So, yes, I am well aware that you can't go into prisons or military establishments. But that is different to shutting down the general land so that nobody can go there.

We are a democracy, which is a rule by the people. The land is our land and we have a right to use it. I must say that I am surprised at the fairly passive acceptance on this forum of a trend which will eventually remove the recreation we care about! Don't we realise what is happening? More and more tracks and whole forests are being shut down. There will be less and less space for us to visit. This is happening all the time, right now!

No, I don't want to run for Parliament. I do write letters to the editor. I do write letters to MPs. And I do go to public meetings on these issues. And I do put postings on to this forum where you would think people would care about these things. I can't do everything, but I do do something.

If I can raise a bit of awareness about the steady, quietly ongoing taking of our land away from us so that others also will start to do those things that you mentioned that make a difference, then I am happy.

Willem

slightly Off Topic here, but we ran into a little issue on our last trip.

On our last trip in Big River state forest, we found a nice little track worming its way back down the hill we'd just driven up (on a different path).
Track wasn't too difficult, had a pretty severe wash-out rutt running the length of it, but all cars and bikes made it down easily.

When we got to the bottom, there was a sign saying Track Closed! We'd started from the less popular end where there wasn't any sign/gate.

Now, say there was a ranger sittin at the bottom taking a smoko, and saw us coming down, reckon we'd be in legal strife for travelling a closed track, even though it wasn't sign posted where we started?

Willem

I'm not sure that we are actually a democracy = "rule by the people" yes we have competitive elections in a fair system, but there is where our "democracy" ends. We have no power to instruct the Government to do or not do anything, except in a referendum and we have no "bill of rights". A common term of what we have is parliamentary sovereignty in which ownership of the country is vested in the Government of the day with the Head of State represented by the Crown. So anyone who thinks that we have a democracy and that we own anything doesn't really understand the philosophy behind it and it suits the politicians that we have this misapprehension.

On track closures, I joined the Land Rover Owner's Club in 1973 and roads were being closed, we made representations and petitions etc and the closures have continued to this day. What has happened in the recent time is that the Nat Parks and Wildlife Service in NSW at least, now understand that it has neither the staff or the funds to maintain all the parks under their responsibility and the 4WD Clubs Association has been making in-roads with Nat Parks. It looks like we may be able to work in partnership with Nat Parks in maintaining tracks and subsequently having access to those areas currently behind locked gates. The gates will remain but we may be loaned the key for permitted trips. We already have a track near Sydney where this is the case, the Clubs that help maintain the track have access to the key, those that don't assist don't get access to the area. User pays you could call it.

My belief is that this is likely to be the only way that we will have currently closed off areas re-opened to us in the future.

Diana

My beef with "user pays" is we already do, it is called tax. We pay tax that pay for Nat Parks etc, so as a "user" you do pay, one could argue that since the GST it is even more user pays as every 4x4 item you buy etc is GST raising.

Whilst I think the "permitted trips" access is likely to be the way we go forward I don't beleive it is a fair system either. But unless someone can come up with a more workable solution it is better than a locked gate with no key access.