Thread: D3 lift kit for US$99!

Originally Posted by gghaggis

m
My point is that between the LLAMS and the replacement rods, neither are any more illegal than the other. When a comment is made that implies that my product (for which I pay as a vendor to advertise on this site) is more illegal than another, I think I have the right to set the record straight?

Cheers,

Gordon

That would seem to be a grey area in the rules (which I think the engineers weren't thinking about).

As I understand it the GOE system gives +0 or +50 mm on all settings, depending on the hole selected?

The other (llams) system simply removes overrides so all settings can be selected at any time??? (so maximum height with lams is 50 mm lower than maximum height using the GOE system?).

However, since you are (as I understand it) able to select the highest suspension setting on a stock standard vehicle on-road (as long as you are travelling slow enough), then it can be argues that the llams system provides 0 lift over standard.

However, the above is all rather academic, as every state in australia basically allows a suspension lift of +50 mm or 1/3 of bump/rebound travel in some way shape or form. In addition, I suspect only a police officer or transport inspector who owns one would be able to tell that the suspension was raised.

I can see the advantage of the +50 mm lift the GOE system provides if you wish to fit larger mud tyres - as it stops you going down to the lowest height where you may scrub the tyres (or is that a moot point?).

As Graeme has pointed out, the two systems each meet a specific requirement. I do not believe the shortened rods are illegal in ANY circumstance, but both systems will strain the warranty goodwill of your dealer. The shortened rods are designed to be quickly and easily removed and leave no trace.

In my circumstance (and presumably for others who buy the rods), I simply want the additional 50mm of clearance available at my choice, rather than when the car thinks it's grounded. I have no use for only 30mm of lift, so a single additional height is fine. I certainly don't want the car any lower - I have access height for that.

Due to the +50mm, both systems allow you to drive at over 50kph at what would be the standard 'offroad' height.

It is important to note that neither system allows the car to be raised beyond the maximum that the factory settings allow for. They just let you select greater clearances at times of your own choosing.

Cheers,

Gordon

Originally Posted by isuzurover

The other (llams) system simply removes overrides so all settings can be selected at any time??? (so maximum height with lams is 50 mm lower than maximum height using the GOE system?).

However, since you are (as I understand it) able to select the highest suspension setting on a stock standard vehicle on-road (as long as you are travelling slow enough), then it can be argues that the llams system provides 0 lift over standard.

No, not particularly correct. Llams operates in all height modes so can be selected whilst in off-road mode, although the lift in practice is only around 40mm extra at off-road height, which still equates to super-extended. It attempts to fade-out the extra lift at sensor signal extremes (eg when in extended or super-extended mode) trying to prevent suspension ecu faults that might occur with shocks fully extended yet the ecu thinks from the sensor signals that there should be more height available so might not provide more than super-extended anyway. I don't know if any suspension faults have occurred whilst using Llams +50 and extended or super-extended mode - I haven't been able to induce any yet have had diagonal wheels off the ground. Its heresay, but I have read reports of such faults with shortened rods, whereupon the vehicle lowered and required the standard length rods to be refitted in order to overcome the fault and get the suspension to raise again. Hence Llams might not exceed LR's limits.

When rock climbing in severe conditions you can induce a sensor error on the car even with the standard settings. So any height-increasing system will also show such faults. I'd suggest that as most people who drive in those conditions would be likely to fit such systems, you would notice a higher percentage of people with them triggering such faults.

It's not a major fault - it doesn't drop the car to access, merely freezes the height mode you're in. A simple restart once the vehicle is back on (relatively) level ground will reset it.

Cheers,

Gordon

Originally Posted by gghaggis

m
My point is that between the LLAMS and the replacement rods, neither are any more illegal than the other. When a comment is made that implies that my product (for which I pay as a vendor to advertise on this site) is more illegal than another, I think I have the right to set the record straight?

Cheers,

Gordon

Relax, of course you do, regardless of vendor status.

However I read it as the LLAMS system being illegal and as I stated, I just cannot see why. If the rods were set to more than 1/3 travel then they may be illegal - but the interesting thing about these cars is that they are actually designed for significant lifts but only at certain speed! The road regs definitely do not deal with that case!

Originally Posted by isuzurover

AFAIK some states have already adopted the NCOP - WA and SA I believe...

You could be right, I can't get a straight answer and they had elements of their existing regs in line with NCOP anyway so it's hard to tell. Therefore, the best answer is to ignore NCOP and focus on each state's particular road regulations.

Oh if only we had one simple set of rules Australia wide!!!!

Rods vs LLAMS - pros and cons.

Rods are cheaper, easier to install and remove.

LLAMS is more flexible and easier to operate, but more expensive and more effort to remove entirely although it's not hard to do so.


You won't trigger Extended with diagonal wheels off the ground, you need to lose traction on all four wheels regardless of their contact with the ground. Best way to do that is to high-centre the vehicle.

Originally Posted by gghaggis

When rock climbing in severe conditions you can induce a sensor error on the car even with the standard settings. So any height-increasing system will also show such faults. .........

It's not a major fault ....... merely freezes the height mode you're in. A simple restart once the vehicle is back on (relatively) level ground will reset it.

Hi Gordon.

I was not aware of this interesting error situation.
Can it be induced manually like the timber spacer under the chassis rail trick.
Does it stop the infamous automatic lowering that occurs at that pre-set speed?