Thread: Leaking Voltage?

Originally Posted by atr

Getting error messsages 'special programs not available'.

Hi atr, the problem in many of these cases is usually the Calcium/Calcium ( Ca/Ca ) cranking battery.

Unlike conventional flooded wet cell batteries, where they are good one day and dead the next, Ca/Ca batteries tend to die slowly and cause a number of unrelated problems until they finally give up the ghost.

Add to this the additional problem that a standard load test carried out on a failing Ca/Ca battery does not show a problem until the battery is near totally stuffed.

When the vehicle has one of my kits fitted, because of the way the SC80 works it can cause the failing battery to take longer to become apparent.

This is not the case in Rich’s case.

Whereas in your case, with the fault messages being displayed, one thing that has become VERY apparent, is the instant one of my kits are fitted, a number of different program fault messages no longer appear and this only occurs with the SC80 and not with other isolators.

Whether this is a good thing or not is up to the owner of the vehicle to decide but, not one person who had the messages displayed before the SC80 was fitted, has reported having any problems after the SC80 was fitted.

Again, while the way the SC80 works can disguises a failing cranking battery, all cranking batteries will eventually fail and one thing that is unique to the use of an SC80 is that most owners find they get a far better than average life spans out of both their auxiliary battery and their cranking battery.

This is not what is happening with Rich’s situation where there seems to be problems with both batteries, and this may very well be caused by his specific SC80-LR being faulty and this will or will not be ruled out as rich tests, but the designed operation of the SC80, after 20 years of use, is not only sound, but as it is in use in more than one thousand D3s world wide, if there was a specific problem unique to installing SC80s in D3s, it would have shown up way before now.

Originally Posted by atr

Hi,

I've got a similar situation to that posted originally:
1. Flat battery one morning. Jump started and car driven for 10 minutes. Restarted no problems.
2. A couple of days later after numerous trips of varying lengths, flat battery requiring jump start again.
3. Battery recharged overnight by CTEK XS7000 recharger, indicating not discharged at all, just needing a slight 'Absorption' charge.
4. Battery reinstalled and started well. Then, about an hour later was very sluggish to start.
Getting error messsages 'special programs not available'. I was tempted to buy a Traxide dual battery system and a Optima D34 battery, but now not so sure.

2008 TDV6 SE

A dual battery system can help when you have the main battery fail. Many dual battery systems have an over-ride switch that can allow the car to be started from the auxiliary battery. When you are in the middle of no-where, this can be a comforting thought.

Not all dual battery systems drain the starting battery - Redarc for example doesn't - and it does have the over-ride facility. It is currently on ebay for $88. SBI12 redarc DUAL BATTERY SYSTEM ISOLATOR SUIT 4X4 4WD | eBay

I personally think that DC to DC convertors are the best way to go, though that is not a popular view on this forum. They are significantly more expensive, but over some years in my experience they pay for themselves with longer battery and alternator life.

As to your battery problem, as Drivesafe implies, it certainly sounds as though your main battery is shot. The C-tek is a multi-stage charger, so if the battery draws insufficient power, the C-tek will assume it is part charged and go into absorption mode. 2008 model - will your battery be under warranty?

Cheers,

Paul

Actually Wilbur, the way an SC80 ( SC80-LR ) works means it is far gentler on batteries than either a standard isolator or a DC-DC device.

So both Rich’s and atr’s batteries are going to last long when an SC80 is used than when either of your suggestions are used.

Originally Posted by drivesafe

Actually Wilbur, the way an SC80 ( SC80-LR ) works means it is far gentler on batteries than either a standard isolator or a DC-DC device.

So both Rich’s and atr’s batteries are going to last long when an SC80 is used than when either of your suggestions are used.

Hi Drivesafe,

I understood that the more often an automotive battery was charged and discharged, the shorter its life became. (See http://www.fullriver.com/products/ad...sbrochures.pdf ) Am I wrong in this?

I understood that the Traxide unit would discharge the car battery down to 12 volts when there was an auxiliary load. Am I wrong in this?

I understood therefore that the battrey life would be shortened by this increased number of charge/discharge cycles. Am I wrong in this?

I also understood that the Traxide unit would draw it's operating current from the car battery whenever the car battery voltage was above 12volts, regradless of whether there was an auxiliary load, or even an auxiliary battery connected. I couldn't find specs on this current on the Traxide website, but I would guess it would be low but significant. Am I wrong in this?

I know the Traxide unit gives great benefit in increasing the amount of power that can be used from the auxiliary battery by supplementing it with power from the car battery, but would that not give a trade-off in shorter car battery life?

Cheers,

Paul

Wilbur you are hell bent to trying to make out you know something about a field you quite obviously know nothing about.

And your last posts either confirms that you haven’t got a clue or it shows you will use any half truth or lie in a vain attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

Does cycling a cranking battery down to 50% shorten it’s life, YES but only if you cycle the cranking battery down to 50% SoC EVERYDAY.

The average cranking battery can be cycled down to 50% SoC about 400 to 500 time before it starts to have an effect on the battery’s life span. A Calcium/Calcium type cranking battery has an even higher number of cycle rates before the battery starts the loose capacity.

So Wilbur, while you might cycle YOUR cranking battery down to 50% every night and then charge it everyday, and as such, you can expect your battery to have no more than a 1 to 1.5 year life span.

But for the rest of us, where the battery would be lucky if it was cycled down to 50% SoC 50 time a year, AT THE VERY MOST, then we can only expect our cranking batteries to last about 8 to 10 years.

But hang on a minute, the average natural life span of a cranking battery is only 2 to 4 years and as many D3 owners, with one of my SC80-LRs fitted, are getting 5+ years out of their cranking batteries, so Wilbur can you explain why they are getting such longer life spans if you reckon they will damage their cranking battery?

Another one of your many ill-informed theories shot down.

BY the way Wilbur, if you don’t believe what I have posted, have a look at the same link you have just posted. The cycle rates are in that too.

Originally Posted by drivesafe

Wilbur you are hell bent to trying to make out you know something about a field you quite obviously know nothing about.

And your last posts either confirms that you haven’t got a clue or it shows you will use any half truth or lie in a vain attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

Does cycling a cranking battery down to 50% shorten it’s life, YES but only if you cycle the cranking battery down to 50% SoC EVERYDAY.

The average cranking battery can be cycled down to 50% SoC about 400 to 500 time before it starts to have an effect on the battery’s life span. A Calcium/Calcium type cranking battery has an even higher number of cycle rates before the battery starts the loose capacity.

So Wilbur, while you might cycle YOUR cranking battery down to 50% every night and then charge it everyday, and as such, you can expect your battery to have no more than a 1 to 1.5 year life span.

But for the rest of us, where the battery would be lucky if it was cycled down to 50% SoC 50 time a year, AT THE VERY MOST, then we can only expect our cranking batteries to last about 8 to 10 years.

But hang on a minute, the average natural life span of a cranking battery is only 2 to 4 years and as many D3 owners, with one of my SC80-LRs fitted, are getting 5+ years out of their cranking batteries, so Wilbur can you explain why they are getting such longer life spans if you reckon they will damage their cranking battery?

Another one of your many ill-informed theories shot down.

BY the way Wilbur, if you don’t believe what I have posted, have a look at the same link you have just posted. The cycle rates are in that too.

Please Drivesafe, I am NOT telling half-truths or lying, and I have no fight with you or your product. There are some drivers who may not like their car battery to be discharged while using auxiliary equipment, and all I am trying to do is to point out that there are options that don't discharge the main car battery.

As to your last point, yes, I did look at the Fullriver data I posted, and it shows clearly that their batteries will accept over 1500 charge/discharge cycles at 30% depth of discharge and only 700 cycles at 50% discharge. That is why I couldn't understand your claim that the Traxide system made the car battery last longer. If you can explain that in a technically robust sense, I will of course be happy to acknowledge same.

Let's keep all this friendly this time. It is an interesting topic, and one that is relevant to probably most Land Rover owners. I think it is a good thing that all options are available to owners for consideration.

Cheers,

Paul

Settle guys please!

Drivesafe I tested my main battery after the car has not been used for 2 weeks.
It was down from 12.3v to 11.9v but it was enough to start the car but with some faults showing and then disappearing. ( Special Programs unavailable)
The main battery was not linked to the Traxide system.

Originally Posted by ~Rich~

Settle guys please!

Drivesafe I tested my main battery after the car has not been used for 2 weeks.
It was down from 12.3v to 11.9v but it was enough to start the car but with some faults showing and then disappearing. ( Special Programs unavailable)
The main battery was not linked to the Traxide system.

Hi Rich, those voltages can mean anything but I suspect when you last measured your cranking battery, your battery probably had some surface voltage.

With the long break, the battery has settled and you got a more accurate voltage measure just before you started the D3.

The fact the battery has not discharged points more to having a problem with your SC80-LR control module.


If your new Yellow Top has not arrived yet, do you want to send me your SC80-LR to check it out or do you want to wait and see what happens with your set up once the new battery arrive.

If you are not in a hurry, I would prefer you hook up your existing set up and see what happens first.

I’ll leave it you to you.

Cheers, Tim.