Thread: Alternator failure without warning - can it be anything else?

Originally Posted by Graeme

It might not have been the same failure as Drivesafe's because his alternator was repaired.

And I think you will find these days many auto electricians either can’t be bothered to repair an alternator or just don’t know how to repair one and opt for the easy ( expensive for the customer ) way out.

I spoke to Shane at SBL Automotive Thursday morning and he is going to ask the Auto Electrician to pick up the dead alternator and strip it down. *He has a agreed to call me back and let me know the results.

He has a personal interest as he has a RRS TDV6 due in with the same problem and is keen to know that he is curing the problem permanently or just the symptom.

Shane is also a bit concerned that there was no fusible link or other protection in the system triggered by this component failure.

To add to the suggestion that component replacement was perhaps the easy option can I suggest that historically I have reconditioned alternators and even purchased second hand. In this case, there were two auto electricians look at the vehicle one pre catastrophic failure and one post and they both expressed a kind of fear when dealing with computerized regulators attached to the CPU etc.

This is not to suggest the problem couldn't be solved by a recondition or within the skill set, just to indicate that from my small sample of the industry, that the technology foundation of today's machines (D3 and other makes) is perhaps beyond the traditional auto electricians comfort zone (not skill). *Perhaps the cost of stuffing a CPU produces a fear factor??? Not sure and you guys would know better.

Not trying to take anything away from the skills in this trade. More suggesting LR and other vendors have successfully pursued a component replacement strategy for some time and perhaps bit by bit dumbing down the consumers repair expectations and understanding. *Or perhaps it's just me reacting to the sea of black every time I open the bonnet which is followed by a feeling of disempowerment.

My personal distrust in a "component replacement" strategy is the reason I joined this forum. *i.e. How many Alternators do you replace before you find the actual problem?

Anyway my thoughts only and let you know when Shane gets back to me.

Cheers PK

Originally Posted by drivesafe

And I think you will find these days many auto electricians either can’t be bothered to repair an alternator or just don’t know how to repair one and opt for the easy ( expensive for the customer ) way out.

A replacement alternator might be quicker to procure than parts for a specific alternator. Also, diagnosing a failed alternator then ordering a new one before starting the job means less total work time on that vehicle, being able to do all the work in 1 session.

Originally Posted by Peter

In this case, there were two auto electricians look at the vehicle one pre catastrophic failure and one post and they both expressed a kind of fear when dealing with computerized regulators attached to the CPU etc.

The computerised regulator is 1 wire from the ecu to the alternator on which an ecu-generated pwm (pulse width modulated) signal is carried. The ecu varies the duty cycle of the pwm signal to indicate to the alternator what percentage of the full output is required.

The ecu determines how much output it wants from the alternator after considering various factors, including minimising engine load under various operating conditions in order to achieve such outcomes as sufficiently low emisisons at idle and lower overall fuel consumption.

Originally Posted by Graeme

A replacement alternator might be quicker to procure than parts for a specific alternator. Also, diagnosing a failed alternator then ordering a new one before starting the job means less total work time on that vehicle, being able to do all the work in 1 session.

Hi Graeme and while there are still a few, NOTE very few, auto electricians who are more then just Plug-N-Play experts, but I was a partner in an auto electrical business in Sydney some 25 years ago and I can assure you the average auto elec today knows far less about this business then was required back then.

More specific to this thread, there appears to by an unusually high rate of D3 alternator failures and just replacing one faulty alternator with what may be a potentially equally faulty one, while good for the auto elecs pocket, it’s not good for the customer.

As above and based on personal experience, most auto electricians these days are no more then Plug-N-Play experts and in this case, having an alternator pulled down and inspected, might be a far more prudent move for the customer than just replacing a faulty one without discovering what caused the problem in the first place.

Auto elecs today seem knowledge challenged if they need to do anything more than replace a faulty product or wire up a set of driving lights.

I am so feed up with having to rewire vehicles for customers who, thinking they were doing the right thing, had gone to an auto elec to get a dual battery system fitted only to find the first time they use their new system, IT DON'T WORK.

And it’s not just a case of some inconvenience caused by professional ignorance but it’s getting to the stage where these cowboys are fitting some bloody dangerous set ups.

I have just rewired a D3 after a fire in the engine bay, which was caused by any one of three different “PROFESSIONAL” installations, starting with the auto elecs use of grossly under sized cable, to the caravan manufacturer’s same grossly undersized cable use, to the maker of the lead used to join the vehicle’s battery and fridge power supply to the van.

Both the auto elec and the van manufacturer had use 6mm auto ( 4.5mm2 ) for a separate battery positive and fridge positive and a single 6mm auto for the common earth return.

But this pales in significance when you see that the lead for connecting between the D3 and van has 1.5mm electrical flex for each of the same three wires.

While this off the point it shows that so called professionals don’t have a clew and in this case, of the “faulty” D3 alternators, the problem is not restricted to Australia, the yanks and pomes are having the same problems with their D3s.

PS Thank you to the moderator for cleaning up my crap, posted earlier in this thread.

The apparently faulty alternator (on my 2005 TDV6) has been replaced and the car has now driven a further ~ 3,000 km.

I have not yet had an opportunity to have the original alternator examined (and rebuilt to have as a spare). To whom could I entrust this (in Melbourne)?

Hi MelbD3, ring around and find an auto electrician who rebuilds alternators in-house, not the usual recondition swap.

Not too many still rebuild but you might be lucky. You will not only get a spare but should also find out first hand what was the problem.

Originally Posted by MelbD3

The apparently faulty alternator (on my 2005 TDV6) has been replaced and the car has now driven a further ~ 3,000 km.

I have not yet had an opportunity to have the original alternator examined (and rebuilt to have as a spare). To whom could I entrust this (in Melbourne)?

Originally Posted by drivesafe

Hi MelbD3, ring around and find an auto electrician who rebuilds alternators in-house, not the usual recondition swap.

Not too many still rebuild but you might be lucky. You will not only get a spare but should also find out first hand what was the problem.

and then let us know