terrain response

It also should be noted that the TC on the Puma defender has been changed for the last couple of years.I don't know the full storey,but others will probably chime in with their knowlege.

It would also be interesting to know if the deefer in the vid was the later generation.

It was a very good vid showing the differences in the vehicles.As a matter of interest did the D4's do the run as easily as the RRS?


There is also another very good vid of Gordons showing the difference between a D3 & a D4 on the same line going through some wombat holes.Can't seem to find it ATM.

PhilipA, did you read Gordon's explanation? He explained what the difference is between Rock Crawl on a D4 or RRS and the Defender traction contol.

Bob

Yeah Scarry that's why I was interested in the thread, my deefer was only stopped when all four wheels had no traction..

love my D3, it's a great bit of gear with lots of amazing gadgets, as are all D3/4' and RRS's. Having said that I bet my good old Mountain Goat Twin locked D1 would often be able to go places a D3/4/RRS would sometimes struggle to go.

And best of all if I wreck a door against atree I can buy another one for $50 so your inclined to try harder to see what the true limits are.

As I said I love my D3 but for all you guys who have never driven a modified D1 or similar why not try and find some one who will let you have a serious drive off road in one.

You may find out how different and much good fun it is to take a more active role in driving your 4x4 rather then just having to make sure You have DSG turned off and the Terrian Responce knob turned to the correct position.

I think if the bloke in the Defender had been running the correct tyre pressures for the situation then he may have found it a bit easier. I learn't that lesson early on when trying to follow Scouse in his trusty hovercraft RRC.

By the way in case someone takes it the wrong way I'm not actually trying to be smart or insulting in what I have said.

Cheers,
Terry

But Terry you are talking about a highly modifed vehicle (your D1) compared to a "standard" vehicle.

I am sure a twin locked, muddy equipped, lifted D1 will cover rough ground better than a fairly standard RRS/D3/D4 but a standard D1 won't.

Garry

A standard D3/4 already comes with a optional 2" lift kit fitted and a e-diff terrain response fitted late model Disco has to be roughly the same if not better in off road spec to a locked and lifted D1.

What Terrain Response does is take most of the driver input out of the equasion, in fact it's there to make them as close to dummy proof as possible for people with little to no off road driving skills.

If anything that just backs up my point about people actually trying off road a vehicle that requires real driver input rather then letting a computer make all the decisions for you other than turning the steering wheel.

A locked D1 still requires lots of driver input, the only software that makes a decision in a D1 is what you have between your ears. That is what I'm trying to say is if you can give it a go, I believe it is even more fun and much more challenging.

Cheers,
Terry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TerryO

A locked D1 still requires lots of driver input, the only software that makes a decision in a D1 is what you have between your ears. That is what I'm trying to say is if you can give it a go, I believe it is even more fun and much more challenging.

Cheers,
Terry

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Definitely worth doing and depending on your perspective it can make you really appreciate the assist technology or be frustrated by it.

The same notion applies to many different pastimes where technology can seem intrusive like Photography, Motorsport etc.

I think it is the case of finding the right tool for the job that matches the effort you fancy putting in to get your enjoyment. I'd never go so far as to say one is better than the other as we're not all the same.

Very true Terry. If I want to have fun (which is most of the time) I take my old 6.5 Chev diesel powered GQ Patrol with 2" lift and 33" Wrangler MTR tyres and no lockers out on the tracks. If I want to tour in comfort and safety and still hit the tracks on the way or at the end I take the D4.

That is not to say the D4 is not fun off road but the Patrol is usually more challenging except in soft sand hills.

As an example, I took my Patrol up the same section of track that you saw on the video the next day with my son in his D1. It didn't do more than slightly lift one wheel and there was no slipping or spinning wheels etc. I just took it slowly through and there was no problem at all, just like Gordon's RRS.

In answer to one of the questions someone asked, we didn't take the D4's through that section of track because our trainer (Gordon) asked us to do the slightly easier track next to it that the Defender ended up taking in the video. However, Gordon may put up the video of my D4 (the grey one in the video) tackling a deep hole with water in it and lots of articulation required a bit further along the track. Even though the front wheel was 500 mm off the ground it turned at the same speed as the other wheels on the ground and I couldn't believe how easily the car went through the section. The only mishap was a scratched ECB bullbar as it scraped on the ground at one stage.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TerryO

What Terrain Response does is take most of the driver input out of the equasion, in fact it's there to make them as close to dummy proof as possible for people with little to no off road driving skills.

A locked D1 still requires lots of driver input, the only software that makes a decision in a D1 is what you have between your ears. That is what I'm trying to say is if you can give it a go, I believe it is even more fun and much more challenging.

Cheers,
Terry

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I think one of the issues is that the D3/D4 straight from the showroom is so good that it potentially lets you get into situations that then requires you to have your wits about you.

At that point you start to realise that you need more than just the TR to get you out of trouble and if you make a mistake it starts getting costly.

A bog standard D1 off the floor would have stopped long before the D3/D4 and as such you have to be keen and or prepared to mod your 4wd to then go further at which point, it would be safe to assume that you either have done it a few time and have a rough idea about what you are doing.

The one thing that saves most D3/D4 owners is that very few will really (and I include myself) take them to the point of no return because :

1. They are not actually aware how capable they are;
2. They are more aware that they are driving a 4WD they drop $70k+ on and do not want to bend it.

Regardless of them being fool proof and too easy they are awesome. And with a bit of driver training, doing some trips with people who know what they are doing you can learn how to drive them responsible and not just rely on the TR.

What always make me smile after a hard day on the tracks is that I can take the same vehicle I was pushing up some seriously tough tracks, kick it into drive and all of a sudden I am back in my 7 seat luxury "Double Bay tractor" and apart form some mud and the odd pin strip no one is any the wiser except me !!!

Plus I enjoy the drive too and from the tracks more than in a 2 in lifted D1 with muddies !

George

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TerryO

What Terrain Response does is take most of the driver input out of the equasion, in fact it's there to make them as close to dummy proof as possible for people with little to no off road driving skills.

If anything that just backs up my point about people actually trying off road a vehicle that requires real driver input rather then letting a computer make all the decisions for you other than turning the steering wheel.

A locked D1 still requires lots of driver input, the only software that makes a decision in a D1 is what you have between your ears. That is what I'm trying to say is if you can give it a go, I believe it is even more fun and much more challenging.

Cheers,
Terry

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A short story ........... :)

I had a modified D1 when I bought my first D3. Quite modified. 4" lift. 35" muddies. Hardened axles, CV joints. Methanol injection (diesel). Front and rear air-lockers. Defender transfer case. A few other little bits and bobs (apologies to BobD!).

We used this as a comp machine, and for playing hard down south - some of the older WA members would remember it. It was nicknamed "The Tractor". Another member on here, RichardK, had a similar-specc'd Rangie Classic, although with smaller tyres and a V8. We both bought our D3's at approximately the same time.

The first time we took our (bog standard) D3's down to our favourite forest tracks through Harvey/Brunswick, we were really impressed with just how far we could go, on the same tracks we ran in the modified trucks. Obviously ground-clearance (and wheelbase) were the limiting factors, but traction certainly wasn't. We were pretty green in terms of using the D3's technology, but we knew how to drive.

Over time I decided to modify the D3 too - not anywhere near the same extent as the D1, but added the 2" lift via shortened rods, 33" Super Swamper muddies, various bits of body and underbody protection. I ran this as a comp machine and sold the D1. I pushed it hard - as hard as I did the D1, for around 2 1/2 years until it was stolen. As I had no intention of selling it, it's depreciation wasn't a concern. What I learnt was:

• the D1 was nowhere near as reliable as the D3. We averaged a CV or diff or axle every two comps or so in the D1. I broke one CV in the D3 in 3 years.
• To go hard, you needed to _really_ know how to use the various electronic aids. It wasn't just "dial and drive".
• The D3 easily won its class in most comps. The D1 rarely did.
• The ride home was pure class, compared to the D1

So to the moral of the story. Yes, pushing a modified vehicle to its limits pushes the driver, as well as the components. Unsurprisingly, this is the case even if the modified vehicle is a D3 - it's just that there aren't many of them around yet. The _type_ of thinking is different. In the D1 you had to out-think the terrain. In the D3 you had to out-think the software. In both cases, it takes a fair bit of talent!
(Sorry, last bit should read "In the D3 you had to out think the software as well as the terrain")

Cheers,

Gordon