Thread: My D3 came off best in crash

Originally Posted by ozscott

They are strong. You find typically though that most vehicles suffer less damage to the tail than the nose of the vehicle doing the hitting - this is so even with small sedans etc. Cheers

Not scientific I know however based on cars seen in wreckers yards over the years a car which is a hatch back seems to just open up and the car behind drives in. Often this is right up to the rear seat. Do not see this with other styles of vehicle which is what made me notice.

Sent from my GT-N8010 using AULRO mobile app

So the assessor has informed me they will only repair the bumper and tow hitch/mount and have told me the impact was absorbed by the bumper, hitch and spare wheel and didn't not travel through the car. They have refused to do a wheel alignment, check/measure the chassis alignment. They have refused to fix the cracked dash around the passenger side airbag and the cracked instrument panel lens, even though both were not damaged before the accident. It is now his word against mine, I feel like they've got me over a barrel as I need this sorted before a Christmas road trip.

Which got me thinking.. What actually triggers the airbag? motion sensors in the airbag compartment or elsewhere around the body? bumpers? Is it possible for one airbag to go off and fail, whilst no other airbag is triggered?

This is from the workshop manual, it seems as though the car makes a decision on what to deploy, perhaps it decided to deploy your pasenger air bag but it was faulty - hence only a fractured dash and no airbag out...

It sounds as though the assessor is trying to brush you off, airbags don't just decide that they want to "hatch" one day. Perhaps another check my another assessor can be sought?

IMPACT SENSORS
Impact sensors are installed in the front and both sides of the vehicle. The use of multiple impact sensors provides shorter

air bag trigger times, through faster detection of lateral and longitudinal acceleration, and improves detection accuracy.

There are two front impact sensors attached to brackets on the body front support frame, just above each front

longitudinal.

There are six side impact sensors located in the passenger compartment, as follows:



�� One attached to each front door.

�� One attached to the base of each B pillar.

�� One installed in each rear quarter, above the rear wheelarch.

Each impact sensor incorporates an accelerometer and a microcontroller powered by a feed from the RCM (restraints control module) . The power feed also provides the interface connection through which the impact sensor communicates with the RCM (restraints control module) using serial data messages. Acceleration is evaluated by the microcontroller and transmitted to the RCM (restraints control module) , which then makes the decision on whether or not to activate the air bags and pretensioners.

When the ignition is switched on the RCM (restraints control module) supplies power to the impact sensors, which perform a self test. After satisfactory self tests the impact sensors continually output 'sensor active' messages to the RCM (restraints control module) . If a fault is detected the relevant impact sensor sends a fault message, instead of the sensor active message, to the RCM (restraints control module) . The RCM (restraints control module) then stores a related fault code and illuminates the SRS (supplemental restraint system) warning indicator.

RCM


The RCM (restraints control module) is installed on the top of the transmission tunnel, in line with the B pillars, and

controls operation of the SRS. The main functions of the RCM (restraints control module) include:




�� Crash detection and recording.

�� Air bag and pretensioner firing.

�� Self test and system monitoring, with status indication via the SRS (supplemental restraint system) warning lamp

and non volatile storage of fault information.

A safing sensor in the RCM (restraints control module) provides confirmation of an impact to verify if air bag and

pretensioner activation is necessary. A roll-over sensor monitors the lateral attitude of the vehicle. Various firing strategies

are employed by the RCM (restraints control module) to ensure that during an accident only the appropriate air bags and

pretensioners are fired. The firing strategy used also depends on the inputs from the safety belt switches and the

occupant monitoring system.

An energy reserve in the RCM (restraints control module) ensures there is always a minimum of 150 milliseconds of

stored energy available if the power supply from the ignition switch is disrupted during a crash. The stored energy is

sufficient to produce firing signals for the driver air bag, the passenger air bag and the safety belt pretensioners.






When the ignition is switched on the RCM (restraints control module) performs a self test and then performs cyclical

monitoring of the system. If a fault is detected the RCM (restraints control module) stores a related fault code and

illuminates the SRS (supplemental restraint system) warning indicator. The faults can be retrieved by T4 on a dedicated

link between the RCM (restraints control module) and the diagnostic socket. If a fault that could cause a false fire signal is

detected, the RCM (restraints control module) disables the respective firing circuit, and keeps it disabled during a crash

event.

Which insurance company?
Not his word against yours cos he doesn't know what was already damaged. I am sure you can back up your statement by someone else.
Straight to the insurance ombudsman?
Speak to his supervisor first maybe?
I do not think they can refuse to check the chassis.
What does the panel beater say?

I've just had a thought - I wonder if the diagnostics will record an airbag firing? If so, this could be used as evidence that the dash cracked as a result of a firing being ordered.

The RCM also seems to record accident data - how is this accessed and has the assessor even thought to check if the pretensioners etc. have been fired.

Just found a bit more info. for you

SRS OPERATION

General

In a collision, the sudden deceleration or acceleration is measured by the safing sensor in the RCM (restraints control

module) and by the impact sensors. The RCM (restraints control module) evaluates the readings to determine the impact

point on the vehicle and whether the deceleration/acceleration readings exceed the limits for firing any of the air bags or

pretensioners. During a collision, the RCM (restraints control module) only fires the air bags and pretensioners if the

safing sensor confirms that the data from the remote sensor(s) indicates an impact limit has been exceeded. The RCM

(restraints control module) also monitors the vehicle for a roll-over accident using the internal roll-over sensor and high

speed CAN bus messages from the ABS (anti-lock brake system) module and the steering angle sensor.

The RCM (restraints control module) incorporates the following impact thresholds to cater for different accident scenarios:

Front impact, pretensioners.
Front impact, driver and passenger air bags stage 1, belt unfastened.

��

Front impact, driver and passenger air bags stage 2, belt unfastened.

��

Front impact, driver and passenger air bags stage 1, belt fastened.

��

Front impact, driver and passenger air bags stage 2, belt fastened.

��

Rear impact.

��

LH side impact.

��

RH side impact.

��

Roll-over.

The front impact thresholds increase in severity from pretensioners, through to driver and passenger air bag stage 2, belt

fastened.

Firing Strategies

The seat belt pretensioners are fired when either the pretensioner impact limit or the roll-over limit is exceeded. The RCM

(restraints control module) only fires the pretensioners if the related safety belt is fastened. For the front passenger

pretensioner to fire, the seat must also be occupied by a large person, i.e. someone over a given weight (NAS only).

The driver and passenger air bags are only fired in a frontal impact that exceeds the stage 1 threshold. Both stages of the

inflator in the driver and passenger air bags are fired. At impacts between the stage 1 and 2 thresholds, the delay

between the firing of the two stages varies with the severity of the impact; the more severe the impact the shorter the

delay. At stage 2 impact thresholds and above, the two stages of the inflator are fired almost simultaneously. The

passenger air bag is disabled unless the front passenger seat is occupied by a large person (NAS only), or the passenger

air bag deactivation switch is on (all except NAS). The time delay between firing the two stages of the inflator in the driver

air bag is increased if the driver seat is forward of the seat position sensor switching point.

If there is a fault with a safety belt buckle sensor, the RCM (restraints control module) assumes the related safety belt is

fastened for the pretensioner firing strategy and unfastened for the driver and passenger air bag firing strategies. If there

is a fault with the occupant detection system, or if there is a fault with the passenger air bag deactivation switch, the RCM

(restraints control module) increase the time delay between firing the two stages of the inflator in the passenger air bag.

If a side impact limit is exceeded, the RCM (restraints control module) fires the side air bag and the side air curtain(s) on

that side of the vehicle. If the side impact limit on the front passenger side of the vehicle is exceeded, the RCM (restraints

control module) also evaluates the input from the occupant classification system, and fires the side air bag only if the front

passenger seat is occupied by a large person (NAS only).

The side air curtain(s) on both sides of the vehicle are fired if the roll-over limit is exceeded.

If multiple impacts occur during a crash event, after responding to the primary impact the RCM (restraints control module)

will output the appropriate fire signals in response to any further impacts if unfired units are available.

20 Right front impact sensor return Input

21 Left front impact sensor power and data Input/Output

22 Left front impact sensor ground Input

23 and 24 Not used -

Crash Signal

When the RCM (restraints control module) outputs any of the fire signals, it also outputs a hard wired crash signal to the

Engine Control Module (ECM) and changes the high speed CAN (controller area network) bus output message from 'no

crash' to 'crash condition'. The high speed CAN (controller area network) bus message is used by the CJB (central

junction box) and the FFBH (fuel fired booster heater).

On receipt of the crash signals:

��

The ECM (engine control module) disables the fuel pump.

��

Operation of the FFBH is disabled.

��

The CJB (central junction box) enters the crash mode and: Activates all of the unlock signals of the vehicle locking

system, even if the vehicle is already unlocked. After 3 seconds, the CJB (central junction box) activates the

unlock signals again, in case a lock button is pressed during the crash, by flailing limbs for example. Ignores all

locking and superlocking inputs until the crash mode is cancelled, when it returns the locking system to normal

operation. Activates all of the courtesy lamps, except for the approach lamps. The activated courtesy lamps

remain on until they are manually switched off at the lamp unit, or the CJB (central junction box) crash mode is

cancelled, when they return to normal operation. Activates the hazard warning lamps. The hazard warning lamps

remain on until cancelled by turning the ignition switch from position II to position I or 0, or until the crash mode is

cancelled.

��

Activates all of the unlock signals of the vehicle locking system, even if the vehicle is already unlocked.

After 3 seconds, the CJB (central junction box) activates the unlock signals again, in case a lock button is

pressed during the crash, by flailing limbs for example.

��

Ignores all locking and superlocking inputs until the crash mode is cancelled, when it returns the locking

system to normal operation.

��

Activates all of the courtesy lamps, except for the approach lamps. The activated courtesy lamps remain

on until they are manually switched off at the lamp unit, or the CJB (central junction box) crash mode is

cancelled, when they return to normal operation.

��

Activates the hazard warning lamps. The hazard warning lamps remain on until cancelled by turning the

ignition switch from position II to position I or 0, or until the crash mode is cancelled.

The crash mode is cancelled by cycling the ignition switch.

Hang on, this is the other vehicle at fault so their insurance company will be paying so if you are claiming off your fully comp insurance there is no reason for them to be so tight.
Probably a jobsworth assessor try above his head.

Not that I want to name and shame but lets just say they have ads regarding a Balinese romance .... To be fair we've been with them for more than 10 years with various cars, house and contents, and they have been great.

All complaints have to go to their internal department first and then FOBS. I'll try and download the computers first and look for anything unusual.

Unfortunately in Darwin it is a one man show for a third-party assessment company that covers a few insurers.

The panel beater made all the recommendations, as his concern was just because there is no panel damage you can't guarantee no damage underneath given the speed of the collision.

Originally Posted by CaverD3

Which insurance company?
Not his word against yours cos he doesn't know what was already damaged. I am sure you can back up your statement by someone else.
Straight to the insurance ombudsman?
Speak to his supervisor first maybe?
I do not think they can refuse to check the chassis.
What does the panel beater say?