Thread: Revive Turbo Cleaner

Originally Posted by Redback

$192.50 for the starter pack, $148.00 for 1lt or a six pack for $891.00 Ben

Revive turbo cleaner - REVIVE

Hmm. Might have to start producing a competing product...

Brun says that the on-line washes don't have to last long, since most of the washing occurs in the first 30 seconds, but since water is cheap, you can keep it running till the water tank empties. The main problem with on-line washing, he says, is that it removes material from the early stages and then re-deposits later as the water evaporates. To avoid adding to the deposits, he advises not to add any detergents to the spray, but to use pure, demineralized water ? and lots of it. Refering to industrial gas turbines

Hi guys, I think we discussed turbine & compressor washing before, I started a little project on it but never completed due to lack of time ( I used to be in the navy, as a " Gunner". )
We used aero derivative gas turbines at work and they had a lot of instrumentation them so we could trend all the performance parameters. We used to wash every week and had a 40 liter pressurized tank. You will often see similar at the airport, they roll the tank out and plug it into the helicopter or air plane engines for 5-10 mins before before they shut down the engine. We did use some type of additive to the water, it was a wetting agent i think. But there are those that think it provides little benefit see above.

The biggest loss of performance comes from the compressor fouling and deposits. Its immediate result & improvement can be observed with lower T5 (exhaust temp), for the same power output. (Translated means more air going into the turbine).

The same will apply to a certain extent on our cars. I'm a bit skeptical about the claims of turbine side cleaning by spraying into the inlet.
If you inspect a gas turbine blades , aero, industrial, that burns jet fuel, gas or diesel, or the turbo of your car, it will be unusual to see any deposit there except for some soot dust, you can remove by wetting you finger and wiping it off. ( probably there from idle time before shut down)
After a spray has been through the compressor-engine firing cycle its only vapor.

For large diesel engines burning heavy fuel oil, we do turbo side and compressor side washing, turbo side we use plain water admitted directly into he turbo inlet at idle speed by spray its a straight mechanical action the water droplets collide with the soot and carbon and absorb them or break them off. We collect the water at the out let, first its just black with soot, ( soft deposit), later comes the carbon flakes, ( carbon deposits from the turbine blades), then the water is clear, we know the turbine is clean.

Compressors side washing takes place at normal load water is injected into the inlet ( sometimes with additive, often without depending on the company). If the compressor internal washing pipes are blocked, we stand on the air filter with a 2 gallon bucket and "meter" the water into the inlet.
If you go too fast you have compressor stall and massive blow back. The turbine on a big engine is about 10% of the engine horse power. I our case each engine had 2 x 1000 hp turbine/ compressors ( turbo chargers)

I think if you sprayed liter of water and sprayed it into intake you would clean the compressor. cheers simmo

Cheers Simmo
On the PT6A engines on the Twin Otter or Caravan we do a water wash while motoring before first flight of the day.
Depending on the atmospherics we do a turbine wash once a week with water, again while motoring. This is designed to remove any sulphidation on the compressor turbine blades which leads to corrosion.
Every 150 hours we use a special detergent wash for the compressor, followed by a water rinse on the compressor and then a water rinse on the turbine. This does give us a lower T5 (turbine temp for the same fuel flow).
The same parallel is with the detergent, settling time and finally water rinse on the turbo. The difference is that the engine has to be running to turn the turbo, but the dirt particles will be so small by the time they reach the combustion chamber, and mixed with steam, they will clean very effectively. Remember the turbo is a centrifugal compressor and quite robust, unlike an axial in modern engines.
Back in days gone by the method of cleaning the compressor on the Rolls Royce Dart engine (centrifugal 2 Stage compressor) in Fokker F27 and Vickers Viscount, was crushed walnut shells. It was very spectacular for those outside at night as there was quite a tail out the exhaust.
I will look into doing that on both of my cars (VW 2.0 TDI and the Disco). The VW in a couple of weeks when I get back from Thailand with my wife. (She is up there at the moment getting a refresher on good wife training and I go there next week )

Originally Posted by simmo

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I think if you sprayed liter of water and sprayed it into intake you would clean the compressor. cheers simmo

The deposits on the compressor in a turbo diesel car will be diesel soot and blowby gases from the EGR and CCV systems. Water won't be nearly as effective as water+surfactant. It would be like cleaning your oven with a garden hose.

Hi I never really considered EGR, I've never been exposed to it, it's the way of the future I suppose. But I wouldn't underestimate water, carbon soot is very soluble in water, ( provided it's not mixed with too much oil) and not very physically strong so easy dislodged by the water droplets hitting them at high speed. We are able to dislodge flakes of carbon bonded to the turbine blades on the HO engines using only water.
Many big "Gas oil" (or diesel fuel similar to automotive diesel ) engines don't have the facility for cleaning the turbine. Unless they anticipate a lot of low load running

We used the surfacant at work on the Solar Turbines then rinse. It would be interesting to know what would be a good surficant that is commonly available and cheap. ( dish washing liquid?). cheers simmo

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Hmm. Might have to start producing a competing product...

Interesting prospect, what would you propose as a home brew or are you are looking for customers?

Originally Posted by simmo

Hi I never really considered EGR, I've never been exposed to it, it's the way of the future I suppose. But I wouldn't underestimate water, carbon soot is very soluble in water, ( provided it's not mixed with too much oil) and not very physically strong so easy dislodged by the water droplets hitting them at high speed. We are able to dislodge flakes of carbon bonded to the turbine blades on the HO engines using only water.
Many big "Gas oil" (or diesel fuel similar to automotive diesel ) engines don't have the facility for cleaning the turbine. Unless they anticipate a lot of low load running

We used the surfacant at work on the Solar Turbines then rinse. It would be interesting to know what would be a good surficant that is commonly available and cheap. ( dish washing liquid?). cheers simmo

Diesel soot is hydrophobic. It is also oil coated because of ccv system.

Dishwashing liquid is an ionic surfactant. You want a non-ionic surfactant so there is no risk of corrosion.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

The deposits on the compressor in a turbo diesel car will be diesel soot and blowby gases from the EGR and CCV systems.

I would not expect any EGR gases to have any impact on the compressor because EGR gases go directly into the input manifold, well after the turbo.