BTW std diameter is 30".Quote:
Originally Posted by frantic
BTW std diameter is 30".Quote:
Originally Posted by frantic
Quote:
Originally Posted by frantic
110km/h minimum to pass the test.
Swerve test is enter at speed, change lane within specified distance then change back. It's hard enough in a stock vehicle... [emoji41]
Agree the comparison is skewed...
In my mind the comparison at minimum should be "legal in all states" (capable of rego in all states)
Agreed - plus no engineers certificates required.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
Why is it skewed? All I have said is the same size tyres as the standard Defender size which is just about as big as a D4 can go easily, if a D4 owner wishes to uses Gordon's 18's then that is legal in all States. This is a comparo of these two vehicles with like v like when it comes to tyre size and spec, just as I believe every new 4x4 magazine comparo test should be on to gauge effectively which vehicle is better not which tyre.
I find it amusing that the most vocal of the Defender owners, as far as I know don't even own a 110 Puma which is one of the two vehicles in this comparo or a Puma of any sort for that matter. Have you lot even driven one in anger for any distance or for that matter a D3/4? From reading your comments I bet not, but yet several of you want to tell everyone about how much you know about all things Puma and D3/4. It's obvious from many of the comments by a number of vocal older Defender owners that some have no idea about late model Disco's at all even though they are often quite opinionated about them.
I didn't have to wait long for the 'oh it's so unfair, to make it equal we must be allowed 35's and twin lockers and a suspension lift and this, and that, and something else to make it fair.' ... Really! Is it so unfair to go bush against a D3/4 on the same size and spec tyres?
Do some Defenders owners have so little confidence in their vehicles that they feel that they need such a massive tyre advantage?
Because listening to a couple of you that is how it sounds.
Hahahaha
For offroad touring I'd always choose our D4 over our Defender.
For full blown mud plugging/rock hopping I'd consider taking the Defender.
Overall the Disco is the better all round package, for nostalgic touring the Defender wins.
Does the Defender have more capability stock? Depends on the immediate terrain.
Is the Defender any more or less robust? Highly doubt it.
Off the show room floor it's a pretty even contest...
Agreed TerryO,
Tyre OD should be as close to stock as possible for comparo:
235/85R16 = 31.7 x 9.3R16 (Puma Defender)
235/80R17 = 31.8x9.3R17 (D4 17" rims)
265/65R18 = 31.6x10.4R18 (D4 18" rims)
Extra (diff) clearance and air suspension on D4 looks to be an advantage, but is it more of an advantage than the robustness of live axle and coils of Defender over the long term? Intriguing question.
Perhaps Tombie's just answered it: "Is the Defender any more or less robust? Highly doubt it. Off the show room floor it's a pretty even contest..."
I'm clearly a Defender devotee, but I've only had a brief drive of a D4, so not qualified to compare the two off road. Enjoying this thread. Cheers all.
Well, I watch and listen with a pain in me.
I bought my Defer (Puma 2011) in order to do Major trips, weeks away at a time in theory, therefore I needed the weight carrying capacity.
We had plans to tow it behind a Motor Home which would be our base.
Oh how things change.
In hindsight, had I known we'd end up with a camper trailer with plans to move up to a caravan instead of a bus, I'd have happily bought a D4.
My back sure lets me know I'm in the Defender :angel:
In reality I don't think many of us would use either car to its potential when out bush. I used to when I was younger, and would love to still, but as we get older and dare I say, not as fit, we get lazy and think more about what we're doing,, ie, trying to avoid working hard behind the wheel.
I doubt that many have access to lands that need exploring for the first time, and given that most have brains, I don't think many of us are willing to trash our vehicles or equipment in order to get to such places.
As has been pointed out, both vehicles have been through the same ground, ie the Simpson. Sounds to me like some have struggled and some have not, on both sides. I reckon if I had to struggle in any terrain, I'd prefer to do it in style these days ;)
A defender has 16" rims, you can't fit that on a D4. The D4 cannot match the Defender tyre size and spec.Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryO
You are taking a D4 and modifying it with aftermarket wheels to compare against a stock defender. Is the question, 'can a D4 be modified to be better offroad than a stock defender?'
The fairest way to evaluate which is the better model made by landrover for offroad use is to compare factory spec vs factory spec with the cars set up to go offroad as the manufacturer intended. Any improvements you make to one and not the other will skew the debate.
If you say both vehicles should have the exact same tyres, both running 18" rims then you have upgraded the D4 factory spec and downgraded the Defender spec.
The way Deefers are appreciating in value at the moment a swap over to comfort wont be too painfull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chops
I recently did 2 700km trips within 4 days for a fishing trip towing the camper trailer.Got out at the end of each journey surprisingly fresh,considering I suffer from back and feet pain.
Love driving the miles in the D4,its so quiet inside,one really appreciates the hifi system.
Andrew
An interesting discussion and a credit to the contributors that it's kept basically on topic, positive and without angst. Could you imagine this discussion on the D2 forum ? :wasntme:
The OP's original question was .................. which is better bush bashing a Disco or a Defender? (but only with an additional $5K spent on the D4 that cost $30K more than the Defender to start with), which is hardly a level playing field or a fair comparison.
The terms bush bashing, off roading and 4WDing mean different things to different people with bush bashing generally meaning severe off road/no road conditions, something which clearly fits the Defenders design criteria and capabilities. Only the most one eyed D4 aficionado would consider this to be the D4's raison d'etre :).
If the D4 was intended to be a serious off road vehicle it wouldn't have 19" rims and highway licorice strap tyres as standard, it's simple as that. It's undoubtedly a very comfortable, well designed and capable high speed 'soft roader' but hardly a bush basher.
Deano. :)