Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

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Originally Posted by manic

Ouch. Suppose that's what happens when you go offroad in a rrs. A good 'crossover' vehicle is it, good for you. Thought this thread was def vs d3/d4 Offroad.

Defenders get properly beaten about offroad all over the world, some 25 years old, a life carrying tonnage and guaranteed not one of them had a single steering rack issue! ;)

Sounds like your Rrs is getting close to that age.... You should probably sell it soon. There is a reason defenders keep a high price - they live a bloody long life.

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A 2007 RRS is a D4 .... do your homework. GGHaggis has an awesome RRS. So we have already gone down the track ... a million times .... the strongest chassis, strongest drive train, strongest boxes (FACT) ..... geez .....it's getting very wheezy!!!


And said Deefer at 25 years old would have had just about everything replaced unless it is doing what most Deefer drivers are doing with them lately .... actually just going to Maccas....


Oh, I recon ... if you did the numbers, there would be more Deefers doing the Maccas run than D3/4/RRS .... based on percentage on the road. But then that's just stats manipulation. :D

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

:Rolling:

So we need a comparison thread between D4 and GWagen, to ascertain why Aust Army didn't buy a fleet of D4's.

We also need to recognise how slooowwww JLR have been to build a replacement for Defender! Luxury market focus seems like the explanation to me.

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Simple .... as stated before .... LR did not have a product. You could make a D4 very, very, robust and capable .... if you designed it to meet that need .... like was done for the original Deefers .... easy peezy ... It would be strong (already is stronger than a Deefer), capable (covered - limitations would be removed), stripped and powerful (covered)..... a few things a Deefer can't claim against a D4. But it's a stupid statement ... there isn't a LR design for that. Back to point ... No Product ... No Sale!!!


100% accurate. That's because certain models and certain previous management had allowed the Brand to almost go down the toilet. The Deefer was certainly not SAVING the Company!!!

D3/4/RRS and luxury (soft in the eyes of certain people) products have saved OUR Marque..... FACT!!!!

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Originally Posted by Celtoid

Simple .... as stated before .... LR did not have a product. You could make a D4 very, very, robust and capable .... if you designed it to meet that need .... like was done for the original Deefers .... easy peezy ... It would be strong (already is stronfger than a Deefer), capable (covered - limitations would be removed), stripped and powerful (covered)..... a few things a Deefer can't claim against a D4. But it's a stupid statement ... there isn't a LR design for that. Back to point ... No Product ... No Sale!!!


100% accurate. That's because certain models and certain previous management had allowed the Brand to almost go down the toilet. The Deefer was certainly not SAVING the Company!!!

D3/4/RRS and luxury (soft in the eyes of certain people) products have saved OUR Marque..... FACT!!!!

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Yes saved the marque, but deserted the HD working vehicle market. I see zero D4's as working vehicles across Australia.

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

Yes saved the marque, but deserted the HD working vehicle market. I see zero D4's as working vehicles across Australia.

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That started under Ford/PAG.

As soon as Ford took over Military was scratched and the focus became luxury vehicles.
The head of PAG stated that the Defender wasn't what he wanted, wasn't the image he wanted to pursue and actually wanted it killed off back then. He wanted the Disco and Range Rover (and subsequent models like the Freelander) and said his market competition was Lexus.

BMW had a plan that Australia would take over military development, the vehicles would be built in South Africa and Solihull would concentrate on the Disco and Rangie.
this was about to be implemented as the sale to Ford took place.
We may have a very much stronger and even more capable Deefer now as those LRA engineers were ex-Perentie engineers and had brought back a couple of engineers as contract consultants.
All those blokes were well aware of the silly faults like the pasta noodle tie rod/track rod/steering arms and lower rear trailing arms but couldn't get Solihull to change anything.

I had an 'in' at the time so knew what was happening, a mate I worked with and for was one of those ex-JRA contract consultants.

The Misadventure 4wd boys do good videos with D2, D3/4, Deefer and RRS. The Watagans is good viewing. The RRS has little steelies and higher profile tyres on give it a bit more ability given what its wheeling with.

Cheers

I dont understand the Defence force to have picked Steyer vehicles to go with their weapons nor because they are better...but based on cost and availability of the platform with parts for the next 20 years. There is no doubt about ability - both Defender and G-Wagon have that.
Cheers

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Originally Posted by Celtoid

Simple .... as stated before .... LR did not have a product. You could make a D4 very, very, robust and capable .... if you designed it to meet that need .... like was done for the original Deefers .... easy peezy ... It would be strong (already is stronfger than a Deefer), capable (covered - limitations would be removed), stripped and powerful (covered)..... a few things a Deefer can't claim against a D4. But it's a stupid statement ... there isn't a LR design for that. Back to point ... No Product ... No Sale!!!


100% accurate. That's because certain models and certain previous management had allowed the Brand to almost go down the toilet. The Deefer was certainly not SAVING the Company!!!

D3/4/RRS and luxury (soft in the eyes of certain people) products have saved OUR Marque..... FACT!!!!

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Is the D4 typing these posts for you?[emoji3]

Im starting to read your posts in a steven hawkin type robotic voice in my head hahahahahah[emoji23]

I thought it was too funny not to mention because I cant stop doing it now

I think its the ..... Making me think it, though Im not sure why.

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Originally Posted by dullbird

Sm

Series 1s fetch good money especially in the united states. In fact most series vehicles fetch good money in the states.

I have no doubts whats so ever my defender will be worth a bit a few years time providing its looked after well is not modified to the hilt and no one smashes in to it in the mean time.
I'm not talking american muscle car money or Mercedes e class money but it will be worth something

I believe even more so because its a 130.

Only a couple of months ago one guy had been trying to buy a 130 and had not been able to find one he may have one now but he had been searching for ages and people were just not selling them.
As i said when people cant find what they want they will often pay good money if they want it bad enough :)

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Yep, supply and demand. Defenders already hold their value well, because, as you mentioned they don't get moved on as often. D3's and 4's far more often. What percentage of these will still be on the road in 30 years...? :angel:

And, for all you comfort lovers out there - go drive a 101 and then tell me a Defender is basic...:p

I love driving my 101, and have put far more KM on it than I ever imagined I would. Currently averaging 10,000KM a year in it and I only get to drive it on the weekends. :)

It's got everything you need - 3 - yes 3 pedals - the correct amount, a steering wheel and a gear stick. What else do you need in a car? :confused:

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

Yes saved the marque, but deserted the HD working vehicle market. I see zero D4's as working vehicles across Australia.

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Yup, they did ..... (well, I think the claim of work vehicle is also a little thin.....capable of ... used that way... not so often).


Yes that's because a D4 is not designed to do that ..... doh!




Should have added ... a company that is still alive and kicking has the opportunity to do many things .... like have an opportunity to re-life the Deefer ..... :-)

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Originally Posted by dullbird

Is the D4 typing these posts for you?[emoji3]

Im starting to read your posts in a steven hawkin type robotic voice in my head hahahahahah[emoji23]

I thought it was too funny not to mention because I cant stop doing it now

I think its the ..... Making me think it, though Im not sure why.

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That's cause certain folks are not grasping the details real well ... even after a 1000 posts ..... so I'm talking REAL SLOW ;)