Thread: Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

I've seen Milo when it was a battered old wreck. It appears a small fortune has been spent keeping it on the road. Its certainly not unbreakable.

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Originally Posted by TerryO

I remember a few years back the old school on here were preaching that live axles and coil springs were just new fangled rubbish and not a reliable or proper suspension system and any proper decent four wheel drive had leaf springs and was called a Series ...

Is aulro that old!?

Originally Posted by TerryO

Everything I have read is that poor old Milo breaks down and breaks bits just about ever time they take it out.

Does anyone really expect a show that is built around a old bloke and his really old Toyota to say; Hey guess what? this brand new sparkling Pommy Land Rover is much better than the obsolete unreliable old Jap thing we drive and the show is built around?

I remember a few years back the old school on here were preaching that live axles and coil springs were just new fangled rubbish and not a reliable or proper suspension system and any proper decent four wheel drive had leaf springs and was called a Series and anything that was called Defender was just a play thing and not a serious 4x4, though they kind of begrudgingly accepted Counties as being half decent if they were Isuzu powered.

I bet there are still blokes around who still think the same, so if you have taken notice then this argument about, what by some is considered as new technology, has been argued all before and needless to say in fifteen years time when Disco's all by then come out with some form of nuclear powered electronic reverse gravity hover suspension then the D3/4/5/6 owners will argue about how the new stuff is useless and if it doesn't have air suspension then it's not a serious 4x4 ... if by then some 100+ year old Series owner is still able to type by then they will still be arguing ... nope! your all wrong it's all about leaf springs.

I agree about 4wd action being very biased towards toyota and nissan, also find them quiet arrogant and ignorant in many ways.
I disagree that Milo is a hunk of junk, if thats what you call junk then thats your opinion. In my opinion i have to pay respect to a 30 odd year old truck that has done more kms and seen more of this great country than what ill ever manage to do in my landy (i have a job, a mortgage and a Mrs to stop me from doing all that, i see what i can when i get the time off).

I also agree that the d4 is a highly capable 4wd vehicle.

I also believe that it is hard and very expensive to increase the d4s capabilities beyond factory spec as it has too many fancy gadjets and is way to sophisticated to be playing around with and the rim and tyres choices are ridiculous.

I manage a sand yard, supplying building materials to builders and trades as well as transport and logistics to other sand yards utilizing our truck and dogs. What ive learned over many years of transport is that the simpler the truck the less heasdaches, the less fancy equipment less headaches, the more basic a cabin less breakages etc.....we run Hinos, Macks, Kenworths, Isuzus, Mitshubishis and let me tell you there is a reason we do not run fancy Scanias or Mercedes that have every fancy gadjet under the sun, its becuase they are not up to the sort of messy, heavy haulage work we do. Most people here say that the puma engines are not adequate in the defender and that LR should have shoved some massive v8 in the engine bay similar to the landcruiser. These people are ignornant and do not understand the principles of a working vehicle which the defender is by the way. These same people would jump in one of our truck and dogs fully loaded and say they are under powered when in fact they are top specs. They arent race trucks they are work horses and the defender is no different. They are 6 cyclinder diesel turbos, not v12 twin turbo 2 million horse power dyno queens! The puma is exactly the same principle, great bore:stroke ratio, torque where you want it and a chassis to match its intended purpose.

My 2013 110 is not as comfy as a disco, not as sophisticated as a disco, not as fast as a disco.......but when it comes to offroad id pick my defender any day of the week. If i was taking the family camping I'd take the disco.

Ps; it would be great to have a 4wd day with d4s vs defenders.....the ultimate test..anyone?

Great post 1Nando. Cheers

Originally Posted by MrLandy

Great post 1Nando. Cheers

Thanks mate

The thing is by terry's rules, he's hobbled the defender.
You can put 3in bigger rubber(which in NSW would require an engineers report) on a D3/4 to keep up with a defender but terry claims you cant go the same increase on a defender? Hang on that's right a disco wont fit 35in tyres under the guards hobble one horse and the other will win.
Now, lets be honest. with the exception of the "last run limited edition pack defenders" the price difference between a standard defender 110 wagon and a D4 is about $30,000(up to $60,000). Spend 1/3 of that and a D4 will not be in the same league OFFROAD. On the blacktop is totally a different matter.
$600, -25mm offset 16x8 wheels
$1500-2000+ 35 inch BFG km2 , bighorns , kuhmo kl71 etc. Now lets also be honest here cost wise how much to go from standard D4 29in to 32 inch rubber on 19in rims? Double 315/75 r16??? So for the SAME cost as 32in tyres to fit a D4's 19+ in rims what could we buy for a defender??????
$1000 Gwyn Lewis/terrafirma long travel suspension kit.
$3000 Ashcroft rear locker, axles , front ATB and axles/CV
$1000 tom woods DC prop
$400 2-3 inch lift springs
$1200 long range tank
= $9200.
$1000 eng report.

Other options like a bulbar, sliders, compressor, lights and winch are common, as is the Eng. report. BUT a bulbar on a defender is about 1/2 the price of a disco3/4 as are sliders.
Now for $20,000 odd, less than a D4, you have far better clearance, far better articulation, far higher load carrying capacity(close to double) better range and less to go wrong. With the offset wheels on a defender, the track if now a fair bit wider than the body reducing the chance of severe panel damage further,
Throw in that a defender with 35in rubber and a bull bar(common mods) would be around 2.2 ton compared to a D4 on 32in tyres with a bulbar winch and other common mods nudging 3 ton. This is over 1/3 extra weight you must find traction for in mud, uphill and through sand.

Who invited all these knuckle draggers in here
Andrew

Originally Posted by LandyAndy

Who invited all these knuckle draggers in here
Andrew

Troglodytes you mean? I don't know LatteAndy... 😜 Rumour is that the Disco 5 has a built in milk frother!