Thread: Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

Who puts carpet on their table???

Originally Posted by AndyG

Back to the definition of off roading, a day of play green laning, playing in the mud or sand, or operating cross country doing heavy duty work, be it UN, Utility Services, or Emergency Services, too very different functions

And Homer reaches across for another shock ... doh!!!


How many posts now and we are still at the green lane and hard sandy beach stage for some folks .... geez...



I think it's already been established (yawn), a D4 has the strongest chassis and running gear that LR have ever developed and could easily be stripped down to do whatever. It also has a world beating traction control system. It just wasn't in the plan for D4s to be a farm truck ..... get over it!


Relevance? - It would be stupid for LR to create another car that can be super capable off-road but isn't exactly designed to be smashed around internally. Panels are panels but you'd stupid to think that there is anything under a Deefer that is stronger than a D4. However.

So, I'd expect that the new Deefer is going to be just that .... as strong (if not stronger) underneath as the T5 chassis and associated bits (maybe shared) but more utilitarian in basic form.

LR could have modulated the design right back at the D3 days but have obviously had another plan in mind.


It would be idiotic make it otherwise .... but then again ;-)

Originally Posted by Celtoid

I think it's already been established (yawn), a D4 has the strongest chassis and running gear that LR have ever developed and could easily be stripped down to do whatever.

Err, no it hasn't.

Just because someone suggests something on the interwebs doesn't make it fact.
And has been already stated by a number of posters, there is a world of difference between torsional rigidity and actual load carrying strength.

I cannot believe for a second that a 130 chassis that is rated to easily carry 1300kg is weaker than a D4 chassis in terms of load carrying strength.
As for running gear, an LT230 t/case is possibly one of the strongest, if not the strongest t/case fitted to a production 4wd, with an excellent low range reduction ratio that is probably lower than most all competitors.
It's been favourably compared to the Atlas t/case, recognised as the strongest aftermarket t/case available and beloved of off road racers in the US.

I seriously doubt the Steyr chain driven t/case can even compare.

Of course some of us have Sals rear diffs too.

I'll see your dinky D4 CWP's and raise it with a mighty 9.75" lump of extreme toughness.
Who said size doesn't matter ?

Of course this comparison doesn't include the last LT230 fitted in the last of the Defenders that has that ridiculously weak centre diff.
Shame Land Rover, shame.

Hmmm. County/Defender for the REAL off roader. I mean surely you D3/4 types wouldn't look the part with a full turn of the century explorer type beard ....


Jc

Originally Posted by justinc

I mean surely you D3/4 types wouldn't look the part with a full turn of the century explorer type beard ....

Jc

Hey Justin - you obviously have forgotten what I look like, the sort of face you have to hide behind a beard (yes an explorer type not one of those prissy van Dykes....)

Originally Posted by justinc

Hmmm. County/Defender for the REAL off roader. I mean surely you D3/4 types wouldn't look the part with a full turn of the century explorer type beard ....


Jc

Originally Posted by Marty110

Hey Justin - you obviously have forgotten what I look like, the sort of face you have to hide behind a beard (yes an explorer type not one of those prissy van Dykes....)

Yep - I'm also thinking that Justin has a very short memory.

Originally Posted by rick130

Err, no it hasn't.

Just because someone suggests something on the interwebs doesn't make it fact.
And has been already stated by a number of posters, there is a world of difference between torsional rigidity and actual load carrying strength.

I cannot believe for a second that a 130 chassis that is rated to easily carry 1300kg is weaker than a D4 chassis in terms of load carrying strength.
As for running gear, an LT230 t/case is possibly one of the strongest, if not the strongest t/case fitted to a production 4wd, with an excellent low range reduction ratio that is probably lower than most all competitors.
It's been favourably compared to the Atlas t/case, recognised as the strongest aftermarket t/case available and beloved of off road racers in the US.

I seriously doubt the Steyr chain driven t/case can even compare.

Of course some of us have Sals rear diffs too.

I'll see your dinky D4 CWP's and raise it with a mighty 9.75" lump of extreme toughness.
Who said size doesn't matter ?

Of course this comparison doesn't include the last LT230 fitted in the last of the Defenders that has that ridiculously weak centre diff.
Shame Land Rover, shame.

Ok, we are now talking about the next generation Defender and whether it might be based on the current Disco Chassis, again as I said earlier time will tell.

Come on Rick the Salisbury is long ago history that finished its run as a limited edition diff in 2002, it's history. As for the lt230 transfer cases well you just said the one LR use now is crap so why even use that as an example either. If you compare the current Disco's running gear to the last generation Defender running gear then I'd say the Disco's is easily stronger and much more reliable.

Sure a Salisbury diff is strong but the last time I went out with Defenders to have a play a couple of years back I had to winch out a Defender on 35's that was stuck high and dry because the Salisbury was stuck on a rock with its rear wheels in the air, might be strong but even with big tyres it was hopeless in rocky terrain where the Disco would have just driven straight over.

The main point Celtoid was making was about the chassis, I have looked closely at a 130's Chassis and many times at a late model Disco's when the body has been off and I bet the Disco's is stronger. But so what if it is? Surely that is a good thing especially if it is what LR is going to use as the basis for the next Defender.

If they use the current Disco's chassis it wouldn't be hard to stretch it for a 130 version if they decided there was enough of a market to build that model and if they use it who is to say they won't use a earlier LT230 transfer case and much better diffs, which everyone knows the Disco already has compared to the current Defender anyway. So they could end up with the best of both models if they want too.

The reality is no one knows what the new Defender will have as running gear or what chassis if any. But why keep dragging up as an example ancient history about the running gear of long ago Defenders when the true comparison is about current models.

It's like a Disco owner saying sure a current Disco has poor ramp over angles compared to a Defender 110 but so what a D1 had great ramp over angles so a Disco is better than a Defender.

So what I really want to know is
Would a chopped and modded 35" muddied and roll barred d4 **** all over the same in a patrol, landrcuiser, jeep, defender on an insane rock crawl course, due to its electrickery