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Well the aftermarket approval list is for ZF class 11A and 11B. If you look at the auto transmission list then the top lines of the "approved lubricants for service fill" for each transmission lists the class. For the 6HP26 there is only LG6 listed with no other lubricant class meaning thats the only approved oil for that trans.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster
Seems to me it's all about the money.
It can't be about the application - the ZF requirement for the use of LG6 is clear, and there are no alternatives.
Now, you could used hand washing liquid in the transmission, but it wouldn't work correctly or for very long. And you probably wouldn't do it anyway, because it's NOT APPROVED
Pete
What on earth do you mean? The ZF company document specified that only LG6 has type approval.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster
That’s pretty simple.
From a Blenders perspective- one example is Penrite who released a document stating that they could not obtain the required additives as they aren’t released to blenders, and withdrew their offering from the market due to this.
I won’t bother to dignify this statement. It’s pretty clear what I mean. You are making statements that are not founded in fact. The Penrite example is over 5 years old and was true at the time for one company. Just because ZF has not listed an oil as approved, does not mean they are not compatible, it simply means those producers have not paid ZF the exorbitant fees to be “certified”. It’s not like they’re going to do a community interest campaign and certify other brand oils in the market out of their charitable heart and eat into their lucrative oil business is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
Anyhow, use LG6, don’t. Each to their own.
For the sake of $100 or so every 2-5 years, why would you risk it ?
Out of interest how close is the ford box to the ZF, what other products has Ford approval for use in their trans ?
Interesting thread on the Mannol alternative (?) on the UK site: DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - ZF8 and ZF6 Compatible ATF For D3 & D4
Not ZF certified but some reputable members there using it and no adverse effects reported.
For me, for now, I'll stick to LG8 rather than risk any issues potentially being linked to non-compliance but agree - each to their own.
David
You guys seem to not understand Business 101.
ZF makes gearbox
ZF makes oil for gearbox
ZF provides approvals for third party oil for gearbox
ZF doesn't approve any of the third party oil for gearbox
ZF makes $$$
Simples.
Not founded in fact? How so?Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster
ZF have regularly issued compatibility notations for fluids.
In this application they have not done so, and yet ANY oil blender that bothered to have one certified would recoup their investment rapidly.
Where are your “facts”? How exorbitant are these certifications? Do you have the numbers in front of you?
Are you sure just how much margin is in their oil? Or what their R&D outlay was?
No you don’t - and neither do I...
What we do know - those who have tried other fluids report slightly different behaviour from the box. Replacement with the LG6 returning it back to its original operation.
What we don’t know - even with other fluids performing adequately for the user - is what impact this may be having on linings etc in the box - and very few people are onto box number 3 yet so how do we know if the impact is shortened product life?
All for a $100....
Agree, IP is the money maker...Quote:
Originally Posted by specwarop
And why wouldn’t somebody hold onto their IP.
ZF won’t release the additive pack they developed to Blenders - so unless the Blender reverse engineers it adequately- and then backs the product as 100% compatible it would be a risk.
So far, no alternative fluid has performed the same as the LG6 by all accounts. And there has been no substantiated long term reports on longevity of the boxes running other fluids.
Heck, no oil blender has even tried to match the fluids in the Locking diff etc.
The price you pay for LG6 or 8 is NOT the price ZF is selling it at! Look at the wide range of prices it retails at from different sellers.
Business 101 would tell you that by the time it got to say Repco for example, it has gone through a significant number of hands - each one adding it's own profit margin.
I also doubt very much that ZF makes the oils themselves. They would have undoubtedly had input into the additive package, but would have an agreement with an oil supplier to make and package the product.
Millions of 4 speed ZF boxes out there, and they're happy to recommend almost anything that meets Dexron 2 or 3 certification for them.