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In the U.K. it is legal to fit a child car seat in the front passenger seat hence the requirement to have the ability to turn off the air bag is required. Do not believe the child car seat in the front seat is legal in Australia so no need for the switch.
Used to frighten me when you had an on coming left hand drive car with a child in their car seat where the driver should have been.
The deployment of the airbag (SRS) is a force impact related, not speed. You can hit a kangaroo at speed and generally wont deploy an airbag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boof Ed
An airbag is the last safety device to protect you when all the other safety items have failed, generally a airbag deploying is the final difference between you die or you live.
Not in Australia they haven't, it's illegal. And why would being able to turn off the airbags be "sane"?Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
Oh, and I used to live in Japan where you could do that in the Euro imports, including the Volvos if I recall correctly, but it never came up for us because I thought putting kids in the front seat was a particularly stupid idea.
The Airbag will be programmed to NOT deploy beforehand 20kph and to definitely deploy at approx 25 or 30kph. That’s running in to an immovable block. Hitting a stump, tree, etc would be slightly different due to softer nature of impact.
Make sure YOU have your belt on so that you at least eliminate that source of potential energy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boof Ed
I don’t believe this to be factual. The airbags will deploy based on force and direction of said force. They will deploy if the vehicle is stationary and is hit by another moving vehicle if the impact is detected in such a way that the airbags provide protection to the occupants.Quote:
Originally Posted by garethbrown2670@gmail.com
You are both right. It is the nature of the impact that determines whether the bag fires or not. How hard, sharp, long, direction, etc. Speed, angle and squishiness all play a part.
The basic tests determine that the airbag won't fire under a threshold speed (rigid full barrier) and will fire at or above another speed (both rigid full, and deformable partial/offset).
For an OEM it's more than two dozen sign off crash tests of various types to ensure proper operation. Not cheap...
The Australian manufactures (you know... when we had those?) also tested that kangaroo impact would not trigger the bags (big roo, highway speed).
I'm being careful not to put exact numbers down because some of that is proprietary and doesn't change the overall message anyway.
Whether or not it's a good idea is for the individual to assess. FWIW my advice is: Wear your belt, don't exceed a fast walk/slow jogging pace, apply common sense, explain to child this is a special circumstance in special conditions, etc... And don't mess with critical safety systems... my 2c.
* Flame suit on *
In the UK, the disabling of the airbag is for when you have a REVERSE facing child seat. in fact it is for such a small child/seat it is more like a cradle, for babies only. Obviously, in an accident, the airbag if it was allowed to go off, would do more harm than good. Once a child is big enough to sit in an ordinary child's car seat it HAS TO BE FITTED IN THE BACK. Once children grow out of their child's car seats then then have to use the ordinary seat belt but sit on a booster cushion, still in the back. Only once they reach a certain size are they allowed to sit in the front passenger seat.Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
My first flight in an RAF VC10, (that's going back to the late 60s early 70s) used to transport troops and other services personnel, ALL the seats were rear facing. When I asked why, I was told it was because in an accident you are far safer facing backwards, which makes sense. The seat takes a lot more of the shock. So I then asked why all jet passenger aircraft are not built that way, to be told the airlines would not be able to sell the tickets!
Hence a baby in a rear facing child seat is seen as safer in cars designed and crash tested, provided no air bag can go off and throw the baby into anything.
It is worth remembering what happens in a crash to kill you. Not only do you get thrown forward, and are then restrained by a seat belt, to a certain extent, then the air bag if fitted comes in as added protection to the bits not particularly restrained. In US cars, where seat belts are commonly not worn, the airbags are far bigger and even dangerous to smaller people, but they have to be to restrain the idiots who won't wear belts. The smaller European ones are designed assuming you are wearing a belt. But in the final analysis, if the g force on the body is too strong, even though your outer body is restrained by belt and airbag, you internal organs fly forward and get crushed against the inside surface of your skull, in the case of your brain, or your heart is crushed against the rib-cage, which in turn is held hard against the seat-belt and airbag, your lungs, liver, kidneys etc, etc all fly forward and sustain damage. And you cannot put belts and airbags in place to protect all this relatively soft tissue. So no accident is survivable if it takes place with so much force that the body cannot sustain the g forces acting upon it no matter how much these are reduced by seat belt and airbags.
[QUOTE=Stanleysteamer;2793570]In the UK, the disabling of the airbag is for when you have a REVERSE facing child seat. [/QUOTE]
A quick check of the UK.Gov website reveals the following:
- "Make sure that children travel in the rear of the car, if possible - it is safer.
- Never put a rearward-facing baby seat in the front if there is an active passenger airbag.
- Do not put a forward-facing child seat in the front, unless there is no other choice. If you must do so, make sure the car seat is as far back as possible, the child seat is securely fitted and the child is securely held by the seat belt or child seat harness, keeping the child as far as possible from the dashboard. Ask the vehicle manufacturer how far the airbag comes out as it deploys and whether it is safe to use a child seat.
Disconnecting or switching off an airbag should be a last resort. It means that the protection offered by the airbag is lost. If there is no other option, contact the vehicle manufacturer, and consult your insurance company beforehand.
Some cars have a cut-off switch which allows an airbag to be switched on or off. The disadvantage is that you may forget to switch it back on when a different passenger is in the seat."
So, while it may be legal in the UK, it's clearly not recommended.
The bottom line is that babies and kids young enough to need boosters shouldn't be in the front seat at all (actually, the same goes for small adults - an airbag will seriously hurt anyone under about 45kg, which is, for example, what a mate's girlfriend weighed).
On a lighter note. Trivia time :)
Back when I was doing certain testing for an OEM I analysed the roo-strike test event and calculated that the imparted force peaked at over 8t (yes, 8,000kg or 80kN). Was only for about 20ms. A rig test proved that as being both plausible and reasonable. And that's just a big roo at highway speeds, and they are "squishy".
Being unbelted in a moving car is pretty much like running head-first into a solid wall at that same speed. If you think that'd end badly then probably best not to do it. Hopefully that gives some reference point.