Thread: Jaguar Land Rover recall TDV6 engined vehicles

Cures:
No cure about a poor crankshaft ("Monday morning")

Bearing failure causing crank failure:
Australians use better oil - but change it more often
Don't use real engine torque until 2,000 RPM
Gentle use until warm

By the way, the poster Christian is an electrician by trade (but his career was in automotive manufacturing hardware)

Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

This Link on the Lion engine failures is a good one.

He has some auto manufacturer knowledge, and he is a Disco enthusiast.

In summary, he says the failure issue is:
- related to poor quality control of the crank manufacture (described as "Monday morning crankshaft")
- there are not enough bearings
- the middle bearings are more narrow than the outer bearings
- there is less oil supply to the middle bearings
- the high oil filter means on start up, there is no oil pressure for some time, which is bad
- the reason for the design compromise was that the engine was designed to be East / West configuration, hence they shortened the crankshaft
- the worst thing one can do to the crankshaft is demands lots of torque at low revs, as the oil supply is more limited the lower the revs
- he is a fan of frequent oil changes

I love these people by the way, so don't criticise the people (feel free to point out tech issues though!!)

Worst Diesel Engine on the Planet ? Ford Lion V6 - Land Rover TDV6 SDV6 - YouTube

So I dont read any new info or see anything new or clever in any youtuber that somehow believe they have found the holy grail of what goes wrong.

*Talk to any decent trade professional about the worst engine design and they will tell you its a V6, the best being a straight 6 cylinder.
*Throughout engine history there are plenty of bad V6 engines, the U.S was a great example sticking V6 engines in anything they made.
*The worst diesel engine on the planet? what a joke, again talk with any decent trade professional that deals with VW 2.0 diesel straight 4 cylinders, their failure rate would be far worse than the 3.0L used in the D4.
*When I used to work on Jeeps (another **** brand I stopped working on) there was a range of models that used the VW 2.0 diesel, all with failures. The reason most ended up at the wreckers was the repairs would cost more than the whole vehicle was worth.
*What's the German reason for their **** engines, beer and bratwurst day?
*Again talk with a trade professional, you know that actually repairs vehicles for a living and they will tell you, do 10K oil changes.

*As I have mentioned numerous times, the Land Rover issue is solely build quality (or rather the lack of it).
*The replacement Ingenium engine like the rest of Land Rover is also prone to failures (yet its not a V6 or built by Ford) again lack of build quality.
*Yet other Ford engines, the mk7 Transit engines used in the last Defender TDCi (2007-2016, puma) are a pretty respectably reliable engine. (gasp! but surely some were made just after a football match or on a Monday)
*The Defender (classic, to the end of 2016 ) is the Land Rover poster child of build quality, it was throughout its history a hodge bodge of a vehicle with terrible build quality. But like me and many owners of the old Defender we sort of live with it and well you have to have a hobby of sorts. (and a Defender running or not is still cool).

*But for a vehicle design like a Discovery 4 or any Land Rover model newer the same poor build quality is unforgiveable.
*lets be clear its a Ford engine? no, lets be clear Land Rover arent the victims, the owners with failed engines are the victims.
*The future will look bright though, wait until the flood of chinese cars are a few more years old and you will see the worst engines on the planet.

Land Rover sending owners closer to the poverty line for over 70 years...

Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

So I dont read any new info or see anything new or clever in any youtuber that somehow believe they have found the holy grail of what goes wrong.

*Talk to any decent trade professional about the worst engine design and they will tell you its a V6, the best being a straight 6 cylinder.
*Throughout engine history there are plenty of bad V6 engines, the U.S was a great example sticking V6 engines in anything they made.

It will be interesting to see how the F33A-FTV goes in the latest LC.

Many are used as tugs and don’t get the easiest of lives.

See YouTube Ford Everest wins world first "NOT A CAR" of the year award | Auto Expert John Cadogan.

Apparently it uses the same engine and Cadogen points out its reliability at 5:20.

Originally Posted by p38arover

See YouTube Ford Everest wins world first "NOT A CAR" of the year award | Auto Expert John Cadogan.

Apparently it uses the same engine and Cadogen points out its reliability at 5:20.

yes its the same engine family being a Lion, same as in the 2.7 and the 3.0 are the same but with enough little differences that may well make a 3.0 out of a ranger or everest not fit as a replacement engine in a D4. Would be good if it was block for block the same it would give owners a good supply of new replacement engines.

Is there a definitive answer yet, on the viability of ranger engines in the D4?

My service guy (RovaRange) - by the way they require two months ahead for a booking ... reckons Ford did change the oil pump and the flow rate via extra oil flow for the centre of the crank on the Lion V6, which is where the crank maybe can run dry and its bearing area is marginal there. So the Ford Ranger does have the revised oil flow. The change in the engine was made mid 2018 evidently. He also said that the V8 diesel fits well in the Disco. Getting such an engine I guess is not so easy ... And I didn't ask about whether its the 2.7 version v8 ie the 3.6 litre one - I guess it would be, as the Range Rover sport chassis vehicle had them as an option.

Incidentally the 90 series GXL 3400 did not pass its roadworthy. Besides brakes, it had rust in its windscreen column, and needed a new windscreen too. So I got the roof and bonnet resprayed and the rust removed and fixed up in the windscreen column, which all was a job. Also, its head gasket was leaking oil, and replacing that gasket is a time consuming job. Plus its front suspension arms although replaced, were done poorly (by my son's service guys who changed to Indian fellows and are hopeless), so I had to put in a new front suspension control arm kit. With the gasket being replaced on the head, I also had the timing belt replaced, along with the water pump (which was leaking). The timing belt would have been due in 15k time anyway. The radiator was fine, but some age to it, so I also had a high quality one put in to replace the original one. All up including the paint etc., it cost $10k. Which included all the diff oils being replaced, the tranny fluid and engine oil.

I also had a Prado 150 Kakadu - and it was horrible, plus its tow rating was just 2.5 tonne. I had the Kakadu for almost one year, and sold it (for a slight profit). I bought it well though ... hence I got the Disco. Which so far, has been terrific.

I do worry though about going around Australia with it, towing 2.4 tonne. Its all setup to do so though, with ARB bull bar, LLams, driving lights, Compomotive wheels with 65 Profile tyres, VHF and aerials, roof rack and I was planning on some rear locker arrangement from Drifta (but their wait was over one year!). Sadly the best choice is still a 200 series ( or a 70 series which is not comfortable but would probably not break down) for ability to handle a break down in outback Western Australia. But what a price one pays for a second hand vehicle ... meanwhile I have heard many 3.3 litre Toyota diesel V6 in the 300 Landcruisers have been bricked due to dust blocking the air filter ... total engine replacement job. It seems Toyota's engineers forgot about that "slight" issue. I doubt that would have happened if Toyota still made the Camry here and hence had more credible Aussie engineers here for testing.

The V8 diesels are 3.6 and 4.4.