Thread: When is the EPB applied?

Originally Posted by twr7cx

You I'm baffled by your acceptance for vehicle technology being unreliable and that's just ok. If we push that a bit further so if you get a builder to build your house, and it's the first they've done, then it falls down, that's ok because it was V1?
I guess we will just have to disagree here as if I was signing up to buy a vehicle to be the tester for premature technology developments then I would have wanted to know up front not sold it as a developed technology.

Asbestos was fine, then it killed us. Cigarettes were fine, then they killed us. Leaded fuel was fine, then it kills us.

The EPB design was fine, but they expected people to service them to be effective. If only their dealer network did.

My point is that with the best intentions, everything new is beta even went it’s generally available. This is why it’s best to avoid being first to buy the new model. You can do as many tests as you like with automation and test miles, but the real world is the best test for a new product.

My comment was in reference to the statement of “I don’t know why we have an electronic park brake when the old one worked fine”. My point was where do you stop with tech? And if we had have said this is ok, we don’t need change, would we ever have got off a horse, developed fuel injection, and all the other technology we expect these days.

And no, the builder needs to rectify the house just like LR will fix a handbrake under warranty. If I wanted to be sure my house wouldn’t fall down I’d build with a respectable builder. Is LR a respectable builder of cars? Yes. Reliable? Less so, but they will build me something very few others can, so I tolerate the need to patch the cracks in the plaster.

I am of the view that the EPB is tech for the sake of technology - the actuator is clearly the weak link with its plastic gears that strip easily being a poor design. Also given that they do strip easily the inability to easily change the gears or even remove the actuator is not a great design.

Now it is not as if space is tight etc - there is a cable that still runs from the center console all the way back so really other than not having a handbrake lever there is little saving.

The other aspect is that the "emergency brake" on a vehicle is supposed to be an autonomous system from the main brake system so if the main brake system fails you still have an emergency brake. As the emergency side activates the main brakes, what happens in the unlikely event that the main brakes have actually failed? I am assuming that when you pull on the EPB at 80kph as well as activating the main brakes - the handbrake still does activate on the rear drums - but I have never seen any discussion on this aspect.

Having said all that - my 12yo RRS has covered 170,000km on and offroad and has never had the EPB serviced. I use it only if needed, and never use the drive through function. Is only cleaning has been driving through nice clean flowing creeks. I think this highlights the hit and miss design of the EPB.

Also on the issue of tech for the sake of tech - I believe that with later versions of the D4 the gear lever was replaced with a gear change knob - due to customers disliking this I have heard 2020 LR/RR models will be going back to gear levers - a bit like instruments - digital better communicates information but analogue style (even if digital) is preferred.

Garry

The EPB is one of the few things on the D4 i could do without.

The switch on the centre console of ours, played up intermittently,not only is it an absolute PITA to replace,particularly if you haven't changed one before,but the hand brake won't work at all,when this happens.

Not much fun when the van is hooked up and no park brake at all

I can't see any advantage of it over a normal type.
As others have said,unreliable technology for technologys sake.

In fact if you look through LR forums,the D3/4 EPB is one of the most common issues.

As for servicing,mine is done every 12 months.

Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

For the life of me I don’t know we bothered to progress beyond the horse? Where would you like to limit your technology to? .

One day, this guy name rudolf squeezed a peanut through an injector.

not long after that some bloke name lanz looked at the engine after it fell over threw some wheels and a gearbox under it and called it a tractor, named it in part for his favorite breed of pooch.

shortly thereafter someone went, That'd look boss on tracks and chicks dig track...

The day after that.

Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

The EPB design was fine, but they expected people to service them to be effective. If only their dealer network did.

There are many dealer serviced vehicles which are still failing prematurely of expectations. In our case it was most recently the interior switch which no amount of servicing or not would effect.

Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

My point is that with the best intentions, everything new is beta even went it’s generally available. This is why it’s best to avoid being first to buy the new model. You can do as many tests as you like with automation and test miles, but the real world is the best test for a new product.

In the case of the D4 it’s not the first implementation, the D3 had the system too, so it should have been matured by the second release on a Discovery... I’m not familiar with Range Rovers but I would assume that fancy tech probably starts on them before the plebs Disco’s so arguably the Disco is already second implementation and the D4 their third go at it... Yet, still the issues.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this. You enjoy your cracks in the walls while I will keep looking at them annoyed...

Hi Scott,

I thought I recalled (GOE) Gordon saying on a course I went on that the emergency stopping routine invoked by holding the EPB used pretty much everything at its disposal to stop the vehicle, so I went foraging through old threads and found this quote from him with a bit more info:

Holding the lever up for over 1 ~ 2 seconds will engage the emergency stop routine, which doesn't invoke the EPB mechanism, but uses the ABS/ETC/DSC/transmission to stop you as fast as possible without losing line, for as long as you hold it up (caveat: the EPB will engage once you're under 5 kph).

However, if the disc braking system is NOT working: again a momentary application of the EPB lever at speeds above 5 kph will do nothing; holding up the lever to invoke the emergency stop will (as a last resort) engage the EPB proportionally, such that skidding is not invoked (along with the transmission braking).

Originally Posted by LRD414

Yes done it and it works well. It's not actually using the EPB in that situation but rather holding the EPB switch is triggering emergency braking solely through the ABS.

Scott

Correct. I’ve read the manual to death on this. If the ABS system is failed and the EBB is pulled, the handbrake shoes will be engaged instead.

It’s a solid system when maintained.

Originally Posted by twr7cx

There are many dealer serviced vehicles which are still failing prematurely of expectations. In our case it was most recently the interior switch which no amount of servicing or not would effect.




In the case of the D4 it’s not the first implementation, the D3 had the system too, so it should have been matured by the second release on a Discovery... I’m not familiar with Range Rovers but I would assume that fancy tech probably starts on them before the plebs Disco’s so arguably the Disco is already second implementation and the D4 their third go at it... Yet, still the issues.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this. You enjoy your cracks in the walls while I will keep looking at them annoyed...

To correct you - dealer unserviced.

I agree a switch failure is unacceptable. Servicing the brakes is also not, but the over extended error (screech) is only because of a lack of servicing. You may take it for a service but a complete service is not being actioned.