Thread: Now we wait as well!

Originally Posted by scarry

Only what I have seen here and on other forums,and comments by Dazza,MR auto,and JC,all LR Indie repairers.

I wouldn’t believe the weight of the vehicle has anything to do with the issue.

I disagree with this statement simply because the greater mass of the vehicle means greater loads on the crank and bearings to propel it at a satisfactory rate.

Originally Posted by Pippin

I disagree with this statement simply because the greater mass of the vehicle means greater loads on the crank and bearings to propel it at a satisfactory rate.

Sure a greater mass will increase stress on the whole vehicle,including the engine,to a degree.
We are talking about 750 KG,thereabouts.
But if the engine can’t take a bit more work,it isn’t worth 2 cents,and has an issue.
And it’s not fit for propose.
It’s fitted to vehicles that are designed to tow 3.5T(not Territory)and many do,without issues.
There are also Territories around loaded pulling vans with no issues as well.

All we are doing here is guessing,Ford and LR know what the issue is,but we will never know the full facts.
More than likely it’s a design or manufacturing issue,although as said,the D4 2.7 seems to not have the issue for whatever reason,as did the Ford Territory.
There was chatter about the bottom end on these 2.7l engines being different than the earlier runs,but whether that is correct I don’t know.
But there is definitely something different,or some would be failing.

Originally Posted by nixo

Yes agree it’s 1-2 from what I’ve read... but as you say who knows. Best confirmation of the figure is response from JLR South Africa in response to a law suit, they admitted issue affected just under 2%.

The fanboys will have you think this number is so low you don’t have to worry about it much. Really? So you’d be happy to spin the barrel on a 100 chamber revolver with 2 bullets in? 2 in 100 needing a very expensive engine replacement is not insignificant in my book.

The other confirmation of the seriousness of the issue in general is the South Korean government seemly forcing JLR into a recall. Not sure this has fully played out as yet.

Any worse than Toyota for example?

Try injectors @ $8k a set
Try steering rack - $7k
Or alternator and starter - $3k+
The LHS IHI suffering FOD is also extremely common on any used offroad. The KDSS has to be removed to access much of the gear underneath.

And all very common failures and all very expensive.
And yes, at least as common as 2 in 100.

Originally Posted by Tombie

Any worse than Toyota for example?

Try injectors @ $8k a set
Try steering rack - $7k
Or alternator and starter - $3k+
The LHS IHI suffering FOD is also extremely common on any used offroad. The KDSS has to be removed to access much of the gear underneath.

And all very common failures and all very expensive.
And yes, at least as common as 2 in 100.

Don't forget the 1vd engines as well, they would easily be 2% of failures

Originally Posted by Tombie

Any worse than Toyota for example?

Try injectors @ $8k a set
Try steering rack - $7k
Or alternator and starter - $3k+
The LHS IHI suffering FOD is also extremely common on any used offroad. The KDSS has to be removed to access much of the gear underneath.

And all very common failures and all very expensive.
And yes, at least as common as 2 in 100.

But have a look at the value of the vehicles(D4/LC200) second hand, that is apples for apples, say MY2010,same condition,K's,etc

One with say,an engine failure, is not far off being scrapped, where the other is probably worth fixing.

Not taking sides, just saying.

All vehicles have issues at times, its the % that have the issues that is a concern.
And unfortunately,most issues in modern vehicles are expensive, no matter what brand.

Originally Posted by Vern

Don't forget the 1vd engines as well, they would easily be 2% of failures

Not trying to cause an argument, but that is a huge call, any figures to back it up?

Failures due to a manufacturing issue?

Or including older engines no one knows the real issue or the history of them or the actual failure issue.

Sales figures of vehicles with 1VD are hard to find, but working on say,25K sold a year(vague approximately) in Aus, all models, surely if 500 a year failed, there would be a huge outcry on social media and in the media?

Originally Posted by scarry

Not trying to cause an argument, but that is a huge call, any figures to back it up?

Failures due to a manufacturing issue?

Or including older engines no one knows the real issue or the history of them or the actual failure issue.

Sales figures of vehicles with 1VD are hard to find, but working on say,25K sold a year(vague approximately) in Aus, all models, surely if 500 a year failed, there would be a huge outcry on social media and in the media?

This really depends on the age (kms) of the failure as well.

All engines fail at some point (unless proactively rebuilt before they fail) - there was a time where it was normal for a used car to be on to its second or third engine and its second gearbox.

2% failure rate over an average of say 300K would not cause any outrage and would be considered to be expected.

It is the 1% failure rate in the first 100K that would generate concern.

This is somewhat dated data but gives an indication of the overall level of engine failures that an extended warranty company in the UK was seeing in 2013:



Note: an engine failure could be anything from a relatively low cost part, or say head gasket failure, to a full catastrophic failure - but from this you can conclude that catastrophic failures would have been LESS than these figures - but of course individual engine types across a specific brand could be higher.

Of note is Peugeot (PSA) don’t rate well.

Originally Posted by DiscoDB

This really depends on the age (kms) of the failure as well.

All engines fail at some point (unless proactively rebuilt before they fail) - there was a time where it was normal for a used car to be on to its second or third engine and its second gearbox.

2% failure rate over an average of say 300K would not cause any outrage and would be considered to be expected.

It is the 1% failure rate in the first 100K that would generate concern.

This is somewhat dated data but gives an indication of the overall level of engine failures that an extended warranty company in the UK was seeing in 2013:



Note: an engine failure could be anything from a relatively low cost part, or say head gasket failure, to a full catastrophic failure - but from this you can conclude that catastrophic failures would have been LESS than these figures - but of course individual engine types across a specific brand could be higher.

Of note is Peugeot (PSA) don’t rate well.

Hmmm....? I wonder what the probability is of my new engine failing again given the first died at 60k?