Thread: Disco 4 buying advice

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

LR should be ashamed.

LR couldn't care less. They have no interest in supporting a vehicle ten years after production ceased. They produce 1,000 new cars a day (well, they did before the current outage), and their interest lies in selling them.

My advice to anyone looking at a D4 is to buy the best vehicle you can find and then immediately have the engine rebuilt by someone who understands the issues with the block. That is, don't buy a new engine as it will probably develop the same failure. At the same time have the gearbox/transfer case connection checked and re-greased and do any other bits that are easy to do with the body off.

Look at it this way. The price of a new D4 back in 2017 was, say, $90k. You'll buy a good fully serviced one now for, say, $40k perhaps less if it hasn't had a belt change. The engine rebuild and updating all the other stuff will cost, say, $30k. So, for $70k you will have a virtually new vehicle that is arguably better than anything else available; with a blueprinted engine that should last indefinitely. And at more than half the cost of a new Defender.

Originally Posted by DieselLSE

LR couldn't care less. They have no interest in supporting a vehicle ten years after production ceased. They produce 1,000 new cars a day (well, they did before the current outage), and their interest lies in selling them.

My advice to anyone looking at a D4 is to buy the best vehicle you can find and then immediately have the engine rebuilt by someone who understands the issues with the block. That is, don't buy a new engine as it will probably develop the same failure. At the same time have the gearbox/transfer case connection checked and re-greased and do any other bits that are easy to do with the body off.

Look at it this way. The price of a new D4 back in 2017 was, say, $90k. You'll buy a good fully serviced one now for, say, $40k perhaps less if it hasn't had a belt change. The engine rebuild and updating all the other stuff will cost, say, $30k. So, for $70k you will have a virtually new vehicle that is arguably better than anything else available; with a blueprinted engine that should last indefinitely. And at more than half the cost of a new Defender.

That's an interesting take on it. Just for fun I plugged in the values into carsales valuation tool. A 2013 D4 HSE diesel with 160k. Estimated selling range 23-26.5. Do people exist that can rebuild the engines and fix the problem?

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

That's an interesting take on it. Just for fun I plugged in the values into carsales valuation tool. A 2013 D4 HSE diesel with 160k. Estimated selling range 23-26.5. Do people exist that can rebuild the engines and fix the problem?

I hope so as I've had mine rebuilt and expect to get it back in the next week or so. I wasn't sure of current values when I posted, but I assumed a low km 2017 HSE would be closer to $40k.

The 120K MY11 RRS long replacement engine including the turbos that was fitted to my son's MY10 D4 (which is about to be advertised as he now has my previous 4.4 TDV8 L322) had HD trimetal bearings fitted and the later camshaft sprockets fitted prior to the engine being fitted to the vehicle to avoid the normal catastrophic failures. New camshaft belt, pulleys, fuel pump belt, new rear main seal and the recently-fitted inlet manifolds transferred from the original engine should mean no maintenance for a long time.
I don't know if the original engine was tired at 320K but the replacement engine is very lively.

Originally Posted by Graeme

The 120K MY11 RRS long replacement engine including the turbos that was fitted to my son's MY10 D4 (which is about to be advertised as he now has my previous 4.4 TDV8 L322) had HD trimetal bearings fitted and the later camshaft sprockets fitted prior to the engine being fitted to the vehicle to avoid the normal catastrophic failures. New camshaft belt, pulleys, fuel pump belt, new rear main seal and the recently-fitted inlet manifolds transferred from the original engine should mean no maintenance for a long time.
I don't know if the original engine was tired at 320K but the replacement engine is very lively.

Graeme,
Did you strip the old engine down?
If so, how worn were the bearings?
What do you think was the cause of the failure?
Worn bearings, spun bearing, design/manufacture issue, something else?

Tony

Originally Posted by TonyC

Graeme,
Did you strip the old engine down?
If so, how worn were the bearings?
What do you think was the cause of the failure?
Worn bearings, spun bearing, design/manufacture issue, something else?

Tony

For what it's worth, my engine rebuilder is convinced the issue is block shift due to the block not being seasoned correctly prior to assembly. By now, of course, affected blocks will be seasoned but out of true. Everyone he has worked on was not true and he personally line bores the block. He says it is not bearing material. Nor has he seen a broken crankshaft where the block was true.
My guess (and it is an uneducated guess at that) is that whilst there will be some failures due to crank manufacturing or poor assembly, the majority will be due to block shift (probably from a particular factory or batch). I acknowledge the crank design does not seem to allow any room for error.
My second guess is that you can pick this up by monitoring the oil pressure at each oil change.
Remember a couple of years back when it was reported that JLR had recalled all TDV6 motors in China to check them and we all wondered what the check may be? I reckon (third guess!) that they simply checked the oil pressure (probably better than the vague instruction in the workshop manual) and replaced those motors that were out of spec.

Originally Posted by DieselLSE

For what it's worth, my engine rebuilder is convinced the issue is block shift due to the block not being seasoned correctly prior to assembly. By now, of course, affected blocks will be seasoned but out of true. Everyone he has worked on was not true and he personally line bores the block. He says it is not bearing material. Nor has he seen a broken crankshaft where the block was true.
My guess (and it is an uneducated guess at that) is that whilst there will be some failures due to crank manufacturing or poor assembly, the majority will be due to block shift (probably from a particular factory or batch). I acknowledge the crank design does not seem to allow any room for error.
My second guess is that you can pick this up by monitoring the oil pressure at each oil change.
Remember a couple of years back when it was reported that JLR had recalled all TDV6 motors in China to check them and we all wondered what the check may be? I reckon (third guess!) that they simply checked the oil pressure (probably better than the vague instruction in the workshop manual) and replaced those motors that were out of spec.

See this is my problem with this plan. Given no one really seems to have anything more than theories on why they hand grenade. I'd hate to choose this as my path and find the hunch on why they explode was wrong.

It also ignores the many electrical issues that can arise anywhere else in the whole car. Also, given all the other d3/d4's will be long gone, you're going to be out on your own for parts.

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

See this is my problem with this plan. Given no one really seems to have anything more than theories on why they hand grenade. I'd hate to choose this as my path and find the hunch on why they explode was wrong.

Fair point and one that I fully considered before going down the rebuild path. I was prepared to take the risk and I'll accept the consequences either way.

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

It also ignores the many electrical issues that can arise anywhere else in the whole car. Also, given all the other d3/d4's will be long gone, you're going to be out on your own for parts.

Not really. Electrical issues can occur in a brand new car. At least the D4 has accumulated a history of issues and how to address them. Agree with the declining availability of parts, but it will really only apply to the more esoteric bits. Mainstream stuff like suspension and drivetrain etc will be available for ages.

I should explain that my responses to this thread are not to encourage anyone to buy a D4. They are just suggestions as to how to proceed if you are dead set on buying one.