5W-40 oil

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Originally Posted by Tins

One thing about Christian is he never proclaims himself to be an "expert". In fact he goes to some length to point out that he isn't, he's an electrician and a hobby YouTuber. However, he has done something that most of his detractors have not; he has rebuilt more than one of the things. He formed his opinions on the 5W30 based on research and observation, and not prejudice. Also, he is willing to alter his opinions based on new evidence.

The first engine I saw him strip had quite clearly suffered an oil starvation event which spun the bearings. On an engine as stressed as these are, it only takes seconds. Pretty easy to form an opinion on the oil used based on that, along with the different recommendations in different countries. Is he right? Well, I'd say he has more info than many here simply because he has done it.

The last one he did obviously didn't have a servicing issue, and I really hope he comes back with a metallurgical report on that crank, because it was clearly not an oil supply issue, as the bearings were perfect.

One of the points he has made many times in his vids is that there are many, many of these engines out there with high mileage that haven't broken. I would add one word to that: yet. The fact that individual engines mentioned here have reached around 200,000 Km without failure does not mean they're immune.

I hope everyone continues to enjoy their cars, because the things are incredible.

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He does proclaim it, forty something years in the automotive industry is one of his quotes.

I wrote to him, asking his level of training within the industry and also with some other questions regarding oil analysis and others (I also complimented him and Vera on their how to videos etc).

What I did not get was a response outlining his auto engineering or mechanical experience.

What he is, is an entertaining vehicle enthusiast, however I see as a content creator he is following the usual pattern.
1 Fledgling channel
2 Increasing following
3 Useful informative videos
4 Almost all content covered
5 Alternative content creation to keep volume up

It’s the usual pattern.

Their videos are good especially the earlier ones with the how to content. The later “conspiracy” type ones are flawed and are purely opinion.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

He does proclaim it, forty something years in the automotive industry is one of his quotes.

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C'mon, where does he say that? He would only be about mid 40s himself.

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DescriptionWe are Vera & Christian and we are hobby YouTubers. We live in Germany in a tiny village with a population of 600 and we are car and 4x4 enthusiasts. We love our Land Rovers. We do as much work as we possibly can on our cars by ourself. Our goal is, not to have any Land Rover mechanic ever touch one of our cars and so far we are successful. We build up a well-equipped workshop and we have some skills to use it. Our son Robin (18) is a black smith and our son Philipp (16) is a talented BMX rider.
Our videos are purly for entertainment and are not intended as a how-to guide.
We are not sponsored by anybody and we are also not interested in any sponsorship (do not contact us).
In case you want to write us (please keep the message short as we prioritize emails from our Patreons):
Vera@LRTime.de
Christian@LRTime.de

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Hardly a proclamation, Mike. He often states that he is an electrician. I took his "auto industry experience" to be just that, experience with manufacturers.

However, of course it's just opinion, same as yours and mine. Take 'em or leave 'em. Some folk seem to want to shoot the messenger.

C & V are looking at getting a Grenadier..

Should be horrified to find out it uses 5w30 oil

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Originally Posted by Tombie

He does proclaim it, forty something years in the automotive industry is one of his quotes.

I wrote to him, asking his level of training within the industry and also with some other questions regarding oil analysis and others (I also complimented him and Vera on their how to videos etc).

What I did not get was a response outlining his auto engineering or mechanical experience.

What he is, is an entertaining vehicle enthusiast, however I see as a content creator he is following the usual pattern.
1 Fledgling channel
2 Increasing following
3 Useful informative videos
4 Almost all content covered
5 Alternative content creation to keep volume up

It’s the usual pattern.

Their videos are good especially the earlier ones with the how to content. The later “conspiracy” type ones are flawed and are purely opinion.

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*absolutely right, I actually do like some of the videos great fun.
*As for experience... mechanical engineer? mechanic? 30 plus years in the automotive repair industry?
*One of the comments his wife says is along the lines of "the dudes name... he knows bluh bluh"
*No, give someone 30 odd years repairing cars and his woman can say "bluh bluh he knows"
*The other great big elephant in the room is their sample of what ? 3 ****in Land Rovers? are you kidding me.... give me a break, do a couple of hundred and you have a sample worth youtubing about.
*As I pointed out in another one of my posts... VW engines are way more **** than Land Rover, whats their excuse?

I have noted people that have spent time working in a car manufacturing plant seem to think they are more knowledgeable than the people working in the repair industry.
Electrical qualified people often seem to think they know more than other trades and professionals regardless of the industry. One of my best mates is an electrical contractor, I always say a EC licences means "everything covered" licence ....

I say the comment about electrician a bit tongue in cheek, my mate gets it, but I also know Electricians can be princesses at times (again tongue in cheek)

My comment about "experts in their own mind" was not targetted by anyone in particular - I haven't looked at this Christian's guys videos but have heard others talk about him - I am sure he means well but I am more informed by the many Land Rover Indies on the many relevant forums who contribute to the debate - most agree stay with the recommended oil - unless there is some climate that dictates the need for a change.

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Originally Posted by Tins

Fair enough, a spun bearing will cause a blockage, but what caused the bearing to spin if there was adequate lubrication to form an "oil wedge" ( that's the term I was taught, there are others )? In a properly lubed engine the crank shouldn't really contact the main bearings at all, except on startup.

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Likely poor crush from the bearing cap due to incorrect tolerances. If there is any fretting over the years and km's of operation then the drag of the oil film could be enough to spin the bearing slightly -wouldnt have to creep around the full diameter of the oil feed hole to start restricting oil feed to the bearing

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Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

Have you checked what Ford USA recommend?

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It is telling that Ford in the US publish a temp range chart and say to select an oil viscosity that suits the temperature range you are operating in. They do recommend 5W-40 for the 3.0 diesel when using the F-150 under what they define as “severe” duty which includes:

Moderate to heavy loads or towing
Off road conditions
Extended idling
Extended hot or cold operation.

They also increase the oil change frequency under these conditions.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ab4469ed10.jpg

This is for a vehicle which is lighter than the D4, and so no reason why these recommendations couldn’t be applied equally to the D4.

From this I would conclude there is no harm selecting either 5W-30 or 5W-40 depending on how or where you use your vehicle.

If you regularly see engine oil temps above 110 degC then there would be a benefit to go up to 5W-40 just to give a thicker oil film at high temp.

I would be wary of using a 5W-30 oil which is at the thin end of the 30 grade viscosity range unless you are in a cooler climate and don’t use under loaded conditions. Some 5W-30 oils have a 100degC oil viscosity which is just above the cut off for a 20 grade, and would be going in the opposite direction to what Ford US would recommend for moderately loaded vehicles using the 3.0.

If using a thinner 5W-30 oil, I would increase the frequency of oil changes as these oils do thin out even more with extended use and end up being more like a 20 grade oil. This is when you risk metal on metal contact when very hot and loaded.

And for a RRS - given these are generally less loaded than a D4, then unless used a lot for heavy towing or in hot climates then 5W-30 would be fine.

The bottom line is - as Ford US would wisely recommend, you select the oil viscosity that matches the conditions you operate in. As we all know, JLR like to dumb things down and prefer a one size fits all approach, so selecting a 5W-30 oil which has a 100degC viscosity at the upper end of the 30 grade band (i.e. between 11-12.5cst) is a good option. For non-DPF vehicles, then the Castrol Edge A3/B4 5W-30 is probably a good compromise and I believe is what JLR originally used with the D3/D4.

The ShanesShed YouTube oil specs video is the most authoritative there is on this subject covering 20x the technical detail of C&V

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Originally Posted by PerthDisco

The ShanesShed YouTube oil specs video is the most authoritative there is on this subject covering 20x the technical detail of C&V

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Yet to see Shane do his promised oil viscosity video - this would be a good follow up.

The oil spec video is very good. The Castrol Edge A3/B4 5W-30 and 5W-40 oils also meet MB229.5, so should be a good spec oil from Shane’s observations.

I mentioned above that Castrol Edge A3/B4 5W-30 is at the upper end of the 30 grade range (11.9cSt at 100degC), the 5W-40 is also at the lower end of the 40 grade range (12.8cSt at 100degC). They are very similar from a viscosity point of view just sitting on either side of the 30/40 grade cut off (12.5cSt).

The unknown is what minimum viscosity the journal bearings have been designed for. Some of the thinner 5W-30 oils which are near the 20 grade cut off can be as low as 6cSt above 120degC and so unless the engine has been designed to handle very low viscosity (i.e. 0W-20 was originally specified for normal operation), there is no harm erring on the side of caution when operating under more arduous conditions and hence, going up a viscosity grade.

This would be why both Citroen and Ford US recommend bumping up the oil viscosity for high temperature or moderately to high loaded operation - just to keep away from the minimum design viscosity when the oil temps increase.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

C & V are looking at getting a Grenadier..

Should be horrified to find out it uses 5w30 oil

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Perhaps Ineos are also following the JLR approach in simplifying the options by going with a one size fits all mid range option. Certainly no issue with this for a new engine in moderate climates, or if the Grenadier has good engine oil cooling when being used in hot conditions. 5W could still be too thick for some climates the Grenadier will be sold to.

BMW do typically specify a range of viscosities to use depending on the operating conditions, as long as they meet the relevant BMW LL spec.

For the previous Diesel engines 4 viscosities are specified ranging from 0W-30 to 5W-40. Of course BMW sell this as their “special oil” - which until recently was just repackaged Castrol Edge (same as what JLR recommend).

Edit: I see Ineos are specifying either 0W-30 or 5W-30 for the B57 3.0 Diesel, and actually recommend 0W-30. I am sure this will get some questions - but BMW would no doubt specify an oil that suits the engine design. Would be interesting to compare bearing clearance specs.