Thread: Anchor Points

Originally Posted by mojo

I fitted a child seat to the third row of our new D4 yesterday. As mentioned above, you need to pull out a trim plug near the tailgate, and screw in a child seat anchor point.

With 2 month old twins and a 3 year old, we thought this would be the best option (3 year old in the third row), but we've decided there's no decent load carrying area if you have one of the 3rd row seats up, particularly if you have to jam a twin pram in the back somewhere!

I'll be changing everything around tomorrow to have 3 across the second row

Hi Mojo

We have our twins and their 4yo brother in the second row and their 6yo sister minds the pram in the rear. We tie the pram to the side passenger grip to try and keep it out of her way. She has to jump in through the back door to get in.

When the twins were in thier capsules the 4yo had to crawl through the 'tunnel' footspace to get to his seat.

Originally Posted by CaverD3

THe second row also has ISOFIX anchor points; ISOFIX seats have fianally been made legal in Oz.
Not sure if you can get the seats yet though.

Isofix seats are not allowed to be used as they don't meet Aus regulations.

As a Q fitter we are not authorised to fit them.

Thanks Sniegy.
My Bad, Still illegal.
Still dragging their heals?
Thought it would be done and dusted by now.
Seem to follow European standards in everything else? Why not just ok the system where the restraints are fitted by the manufactuerer?
Really shouldn't under estimate the ability for bureaucrats to stuff around.

Important details for Australian ISOFIX child restraints from Britax – Babyology

http://www.standards.org.au/OurOrgan...lease%20MR.pdf


"The Australian system, whilst it was revolutionary when it was first introduced and was a big advancement in child seat safety, is no longer the most reliable system, and that’s been highlighted by the fact that a lot of research has shown that in the order of two-thirds of child seats are incorrectly mounted.”

Isofix child restraints to be legalised in 2013 |*CarAdvice

The reality?

Essential Baby > ISOFIX Is coming


"Extended rear facing and ISOFIX are two totally separate issues.

We currently have provision in the Australian Standard (and have had for years) for a "Type D" restraint which is a rear facing restraint for children to 4yrs.

It is just that as yet manufacturers have seen no need (or market) to create a RF restraint to 4yrs.


ISOFIX on the other hand is for ALL types of restraints (ie. RF. ERF. FF and Boosters).


What has happened is at the moment the FIRST HURDLE to getting ISOFIX here has been jumped. The ADR (Aust Design Rule) for cars has been changed which means that from Nov this year all cars plated from them (ie. approval plated not registered plated) will be required to have ISOFIX points.


No research has clearly shown again and again that apart from being nearly idiot proof to install ISOFIX is also SAFER then our TT/Seatbelt in Side impact accidents. Even research done with a Holden Commodore (modified) with the same shell Aussie seat (with TT/Seatbelt and TT/Latch and TT/ISOFIX) also came to the conclusion (which also marries up with overseas research) that ISOFIX is superior in side impact accidents.


So yes now the ADR for child restraints has changed.

Now stage II has to happen - for the Australian Standard for Child Restraints to be changed to include ISOFIX fittings. As PP has pointed out there is some debate in the media as to whether it is a 2013 due date for the standard to be updated or 2013 due date for the START of discussions over a proposed new standard.

Either way once Stage II has been passed it is then onto the manufacturers for Stage III - actual research and design of an Aussie Standard ISOFIX seat as our Aust Std is not just about performance it is also about the actual DESIGN of the seat (which is why we have issues with foreign seats - they all have to be modified for our standards).

So then you pass Stage III - you have done your R&D.... now you have to pass Stage IV which is actually to get your new seat approved by Standards Australia. Even if you do get your seat approved first go, history shows a lag of at least 4-6m between 'approval' and a seat hitting the shelves in the stores.

So personally I would not be holding my breath for an Aussie standard approved ISOFIX seat before 2015."

If the new standard ends up different from the ISOFIX standard we may never get seats that fit the system as we are too small a market.

In my ignorance I thought they would see the bleeding obvios and approve them.

Originally Posted by jtonline

Hi Jagen,

Did you get any more info re: the having anchor points on the floor for the 3rd row?

Hello there.

We had 2 anchor points installed in the third row of the D4 as we have 4 kids (including twins) whom all require booster seats and or baby seats.

Anyway, you can't just go and screw in the Anchor points in the behind the 3rd row seats. I think there are holes there already under the carpet with sealed screw reinforcing through to the outside of the vehicle as mentioned. However as adding anchor points for child seats is an Vehicle Safety Modification, they need to be installed by a qualified person, and a vehicle modification plate attached to the car....and then the car modification paper work sent to somewhere special, like the licensing department, (I don't know where but it will be bureaucratic department...full of bureaucrats...) anyway it was all done by the installer. In WA it was Wespar Vanquip.

Anyone who has done this on their own please note the compliance requirements. The cost is not for screwing in 2 anchor points...it's the compliance requirements.

It's pretty easy once you know who to talk to. LR in the west wanted $250 per anchor point to fit before delivery, however I contacted the engineering business/installer and got them done after delivery from memory for $200 for both. All certified etc. you need to advise insurer!...... It's a vehicle modification .... I can't bold this on iPad, but please remember this

I will try to get some pictures of the anchor points and mod plate, which they installed in the inside of the rear door wheel arch. Hardly notice it.

Cheers

Interesting, hadn't thought about the legality of installing your own anchor points. I would have thought that if a car has factory made holes to take an anchor point, you would be OK to put them in your self. Most baby seats are sold with screw in anchor points, and quite a few cars have suitable holes that are available for these - in addition to the one I just put into the D4, I've done it to a Camry and a Mazda Premacy. I've rung an anchor point installer to see if I can legally do this myself, just waiting for them to call me back ...

I think it has to do with what the car is registered with and what the manufacturer specifies? I.e. a ford falcon or commodore states 3 anchor points (you have screw buy the 3rd bold and anchor and then screw in yourself. When I spoke to the installer, they said no car comes with third row anchor pints (except people movers like the Tarago etc). The company has installed the anchor points in Discos, Land Cruisers and XC90s. Won't fit to Pajeros with their seat set set up or the Prado 120s and back. The 150s he mentioned might be ok, but he has to check the load specs and 'engineering' structure of the seat. There is bit about it on line, and these mods can only be done by the government authorised engineers/installers.
I am getting to the pictures...

Originally Posted by CaverD3

Thanks Sniegy.
My Bad, Still illegal.
Still dragging their heals?
Thought it would be done and dusted by now.
Seem to follow European standards in everything else? Why not just ok the system where the restraints are fitted by the manufactuerer?
Really shouldn't under estimate the ability for bureaucrats to stuff around.

Important details for Australian ISOFIX child restraints from Britax – Babyology

http://www.standards.org.au/OurOrgan...lease%20MR.pdf

"The Australian system, whilst it was revolutionary when it was first introduced and was a big advancement in child seat safety, is no longer the most reliable system, and that’s been highlighted by the fact that a lot of research has shown that in the order of two-thirds of child seats are incorrectly mounted.”

Isofix child restraints to be legalised in 2013 | CarAdvice

The reality?

Essential Baby > ISOFIX Is coming

"Extended rear facing and ISOFIX are two totally separate issues.

We currently have provision in the Australian Standard (and have had for years) for a "Type D" restraint which is a rear facing restraint for children to 4yrs.

It is just that as yet manufacturers have seen no need (or market) to create a RF restraint to 4yrs.

ISOFIX on the other hand is for ALL types of restraints (ie. RF. ERF. FF and Boosters).

What has happened is at the moment the FIRST HURDLE to getting ISOFIX here has been jumped. The ADR (Aust Design Rule) for cars has been changed which means that from Nov this year all cars plated from them (ie. approval plated not registered plated) will be required to have ISOFIX points.

No research has clearly shown again and again that apart from being nearly idiot proof to install ISOFIX is also SAFER then our TT/Seatbelt in Side impact accidents. Even research done with a Holden Commodore (modified) with the same shell Aussie seat (with TT/Seatbelt and TT/Latch and TT/ISOFIX) also came to the conclusion (which also marries up with overseas research) that ISOFIX is superior in side impact accidents.

So yes now the ADR for child restraints has changed.

Now stage II has to happen - for the Australian Standard for Child Restraints to be changed to include ISOFIX fittings. As PP has pointed out there is some debate in the media as to whether it is a 2013 due date for the standard to be updated or 2013 due date for the START of discussions over a proposed new standard.

Either way once Stage II has been passed it is then onto the manufacturers for Stage III - actual research and design of an Aussie Standard ISOFIX seat as our Aust Std is not just about performance it is also about the actual DESIGN of the seat (which is why we have issues with foreign seats - they all have to be modified for our standards).

So then you pass Stage III - you have done your R&D.... now you have to pass Stage IV which is actually to get your new seat approved by Standards Australia. Even if you do get your seat approved first go, history shows a lag of at least 4-6m between 'approval' and a seat hitting the shelves in the stores.

So personally I would not be holding my breath for an Aussie standard approved ISOFIX seat before 2015."

If the new standard ends up different from the ISOFIX standard we may never get seats that fit the system as we are too small a market.

In my ignorance I thought they would see the bleeding obvios and approve them.

Hi Caver,
The difference & one part of the ADR not approving ISOFIX is that our standards which is superior to that of anywhere in the world, is that our seats are secured by the top tether strap.
ISOFIX does not require this & our ADR's will not approve this until this happens, one part is due because of manufacturers may not or will not redesign the seat with this option.
Another point is that the ISOFIX capsules are a solid mount to the seat, therefore in an accident the seat does not flex (our seats are designed like a crumple section of a vehicle) to take up any absorption in an accident, add to this not having a top tether & the seat moves violently in an accident.

If it was my vehicle & one of MY children, I would not use an ISOFIX seat!

The main point to this is having your seat fitted properly, the seat fitting your child, don't discount height, weight etc etc.
Doing this correctly WILL save your child's life!

HTH
Cheers

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

Originally Posted by gotaflat

I think it has to do with what the car is registered with and what the manufacturer specifies?

Yep, the installer rang me back, and basically said the same thing - he suggested as long as the car manual states the holes are for an anchor point, you are OK to screw them in yourself. I don't think the D4 manual mentions these third row anchor points, but an earlier post in this thread states that Land Rover Australia said they were OK to use. So who knows ...