Disappointed in the D5 / waiting for the Defender

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Originally Posted by TB

The D4 had carpet. Was it subjected to this same level of outcry?

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Shhh... don't tell them about the rubber mats and the fact that mud and dirt just wipes off the leather seats. It'll spoil the show!

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Originally Posted by TB

Whether due to overall geometry, tread pattern or a combination of both, it just so happened that mud was a problem for the DS that day. Insisting on spinning the wheels with arches full of **** is bound to cause damage to any vehicle with arch liners. The journalists took a random bit of bad luck and lit a fire under it to make a story. It’s not a valid criticism of the DS and it has nothing to do with the D5.

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I would say the a contributing factor here is the fact that the Disco Sport spent most of the time as lead car meaning that it was the one picking up that top layer of sticky mud with the other cars following in its tracks. Based on where the car was, it looked very much like he was trying to have a bit of "fun" and it backfired. It's not the 1st vehicle to have mud clogging up the arches.

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Originally Posted by TB

Did the D4 have arch liners?

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Yeah it does. Just about every modern vehicle does.

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Originally Posted by 1nando

Little off topic. But we are considering a d4. Do you consider it a must to get proper and specific vehicle training or is it easy to pick up?

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No. You know enough about driving off-road. It is worth reading up on it's systems though.

You can basically just stick it in low range and go, but by understanding how the systems work you will get more out of it. Gordon's book may be worth getting (you can borrow mine if you want - I didn't get a lot out of it) but personally I think there's enough information on here.

Really the best you can do is just go out and play with it. It's very different to a Defender. Rather than revelling in the simplicity you need to embrace the technology - they really are a very clever car. I think you'll be amazed by it's breadth of capability.

Cheers,
Jon

Well before I got my D4, I really would have liked a Deefa, but, after a couple of minor things, like I couldn't really fit in it, couldn't adjust the seat in a comfy position, kids room in the back very compromised, crap stereo, sloooooooow, manual only, and the really minor point, the safety systems were 10 generations behind anything. I changed from my D2 not only because it was getting old, but because of the safety cell wasn't as good as newer cars and I like to tour. It eats k's like I eat grain waves! It's one of the quietest and comfortable cars I've driven. Seeing there are so many head ons these days, I thought it was time to upgrade. So while I may not be able to lock my front and rear diff, I'll take that any day over a locked Deefa. Just google Defender accident and it will scare you.
At the end of the day, everything is a compromise and you get what suits you and your current lifestyle. If you can't compromise with the D5, then get your Toybotas, Bitsarmissing (Mitsubishi), etc. I would get a D5 over any of those cars.

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Originally Posted by SBD4

Shhh... don't tell them about the rubber mats and the fact that mud and dirt just wipes off the leather seats. It'll spoil the show!

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I've got the same leather in the Defender as I did in the D4 and it's worked brilliantly in both vehicles.

It's good, solid English leather, made from cows who've spent a lifetime wandering the Yorkshire Moors. Not some namby-pamby Japanese cow who has lived a sheltered life in a barn in Hokkaido.

Seriously though, while clearly not in the league of a Defender the Disco 4 interior was suprisingly robust. Mine copped a lot of dust and mud and was drowned a couple of times too. Yet it still scrubbed up very well when I sold it.

Although the D5 interior has gone up a level or two in flashness, if you look closely it still retains a lot of the robustness the D4 had.

Cheers,
Jon

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Originally Posted by 1nando

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...017/09/885.jpg

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New improved Version:tease:

I'm getting a little sick of the Defender vs Disco nonsense and the constant knocking of the current product. Whether we like it or not (and very often I don't) the world is moving on. I wonder if the internet existed in 1958 whether there would have been as much angst when the Series II was released. OMG, what have they done to the styling? The straight sides were so much better than those ridiculous curves.

I went from a D4 to a Defender. I absolutely love my Defender to bits and haven't regretted the decision for a minute. However I love it despite it's flaws. I love it's simplicity, I love the fact you actually have to drive it. Yes, it's slow, a bit uncomfortable, noisy and hot. But once you get it off the bitumen it suddenly all makes sense, it is designed to do one thing and it does that very well. Where it can go using simple mechanical systems a D4 needs sophisticated technology to match. Camping out of it is brilliant. No need to be precious about it and you don't wake up the computers every time you open a door.

I've invested a fair amount of time and money into making it a good touring vehicle and it now does that very well. I've had two trips in it now of two weeks duration and about 5000km each (and several shorter ones) and have thoroughly enjoyed the time spent behind the wheel. Plus I use it as my daily driver and even enjoy commuting in it.

Despite all this, I would say the D4 was a far more practical vehicle and required far less modification. It can pretty well match the Defender off-road, but on top of that it would just eat up the miles on a long drive. It was far more sure-footed on a gravel road - you could throw around like a big rally car (if you turn the DSC off :) ). It can seat 6 adults comfortably (the Defender can only do two) and it could also swallow a pretty substantial payload. Without doubt it is the best tow vehicle I have ever driven. Above all that though, it won't try and kill you if you do hit the scenery - I really do dread having an accident in the Defender.

If the D5 has improved on this, and I think on balance it has, then it can only be a good thing.

I absolutely get why people are so passionate about their Defenders, I'm very passionate about mine. But comparing the Defender to the D5 is pointless - there really is no comparison. They are two different vehicles designed for two different purposes in two different eras. The D5 is a modern car and the Defender is an anachronism. While I can seriously envisage keeping my Defender till the end a D5 will have a lifespan of 10-12 years max - that is simply how modern vehicles are designed. This is not a bad thing as LR are investing heavily in recycling their vehicles, it's just a different way of looking at vehicle ownership.

Both are brilliant vehicles in their own way and both should be celebrated for what they are. One a timeless classic, the other a tour de force of modern technology. Just buy the one you like.

Cheers,
Jon

We did... we have both [emoji41]

And it’s not the first time we’ve had a Disco and Defender...

Need to look at the D5 again soon... So we can stop running the 90 to work...

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Originally Posted by Vern

Its about the capabilties of the d5 which it seems no one has driven and used offroad and if the new defender will be more capable or not.
Not about its not capable because no one wants to scratch it, or about old defenders and discos!

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Yesterday i watched a video on utube where they compared a D5 to a GWagon, Jeep JK, an Artic DMax and a little crappy thing. The D5 was middle of the road and a long way behind the leader.

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

Yesterday i watched a video on utube where they compared a D5 to a GWagon, Jeep JK, an Artic DMax and a little crappy thing. The D5 was middle of the road and a long way behind the leader.

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What does that have to do with my post?

My vehicle has arch liners and i have fitted 33" tyres and gone through heaps of mud, and the arch liners are totally fine with it.

In my experience, good drive systems are either RWD, Rear Biased 4WD, or Part Time 4WD.

AWD drivetrains, whether front biased, non biased, or rear biased, and simple FWD, are all rubbish. They drive horribly and have other drawbacks as well.