D5 winch

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Originally Posted by PAT303

I'm the same,I've hit one thing,a Duck which broke the headlight on my L322 and I do more outback miles than most.I'd rather have a vehicle that stopped and turned to avoid an accident instead of trying to make it survive one. Pat

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I'd like to have both. Are you suggesting that fitting a bar precludes a vehicle from "stopping or turning"?

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Originally Posted by rick130

I think you'll find that to meet ANCAP, EUROCAP, etc the traditional ladder frame chassis has to be able to deform/be a crushable structure.

I'd guess crush cans alone aren't enough.

Re crush cans, I've always had the understanding that you don't snatch, hilift, etc off a bar with crush cans.

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Rick,the Defender chassis has fold points front and rear,the front folds down,the rear folds out,that's why the ends are ''weaker'' than the deeper center section. Pat

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Originally Posted by johntins

I didn't phrase that very well. The car is a D1. Survive was meant to mean for me in it. It has been clearly demonstrated, and I have posted the vid elsewhere, that a D1 offers very little occupant protection in the case of frontal impact. A well designed roo bar offers greater protection from large animal strikes than the car on its own. And, yes, I think the car would have more chance of being repairable, if not drivable, with the ARB bar with crush cans than without it.

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There is a video, I think by Fifth Gear, showing what happens to either a d1 or a D2 in an accident ... it's not pretty. Defenders are actually worse, which is why I dropped the idea of having one as the family tourer. On the other hand, D3s and D4s are monocoque with crumple zones, so an entirely different kettle of fish.

Re the thread drift, apologies - the original issue was whether you can mount a winch on a D5, given that it's now entirely monocoque. The answer seems to be yes, you can, and you don't need a bullbar, Which would suit me fine.

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Originally Posted by PAT303

Rick,the Defender chassis has fold points front and rear,the front folds down,the rear folds out,that's why the ends are ''weaker'' than the deeper center section. Pat

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I wasn't aware of that Pat, but I'd hazard a guess the new chassis's compress/deform quite a bit more from what the smash repair blokes are saying.

I remember GQ/GU Patrols didn't do so well in offset frontal impacts, instead of deforming progressively they just fold.

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Originally Posted by Arapiles

There is a video, I think by Fifth Gear, showing what happens to either a d1 or a D2 in an accident ... it's not pretty. Defenders are actually worse, which is why I dropped the idea of having one as the family tourer. On the other hand, D3s and D4s are monocoque with crumple zones, so an entirely different kettle of fish.

Re the thread drift, apologies - the original issue was whether you can mount a winch on a D5, given that it's now entirely monocoque. The answer seems to be yes, you can, and you don't need a bullbar, Which would suit me fine.

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https://youtu.be/mLLanPwRgio

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Originally Posted by johntins

I'd like to have both. Are you suggesting that fitting a bar precludes a vehicle from "stopping or turning"?

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Yep.Drive two vehicles the same,one standard,one with bling,the difference is huge. Pat

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Originally Posted by rick130

I wasn't aware of that Pat, but I'd hazard a guess the new chassis's compress/deform quite a bit more from what the smash repair blokes are saying.

I remember GQ/GU Patrols didn't do so well in offset frontal impacts, instead of deforming progressively they just fold.

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Rick,none of the old style vehicles does well,Patrol,Cruiser,Defender,they weren't designed with safety in mind,LR new it all too well,it's the reason they put restrictor plates under the carbies in stage one's. Pat

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Originally Posted by Arapiles

There is a video, I think by Fifth Gear, showing what happens to either a d1 or a D2 in an accident ... it's not pretty. Defenders are actually worse, which is why I dropped the idea of having one as the family tourer. On the other hand, D3s and D4s are monocoque with crumple zones, so an entirely different kettle of fish.

Re the thread drift, apologies - the original issue was whether you can mount a winch on a D5, given that it's now entirely monocoque. The answer seems to be yes, you can, and you don't need a bullbar, Which would suit me fine.

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Just to clarify this,in an accident involving a speed above 80 or so,or involving hitting an immovable object like a tree your not walking away regardless of crumple zone's,airbags,lucky charms hanging from the rear view mirror etc.Paramedic's have a saying about new vehicles,all they do is make the corpse easier to identify. Pat

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Originally Posted by PAT303

Yep.Drive two vehicles the same,one standard,one with bling,the difference is huge. Pat

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Can't agree, at least not about the D1. Drove it down to get the new cans with the bar removed, and apart from not being able to see the top of the bat you wouldn't have known. Newer, lighter cars may be different.

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I'm the same,I've hit one thing,a Duck which broke the headlight on my L322 and I do more outback miles than most.I'd rather have a vehicle that stopped and turned to avoid an accident instead of trying to make it survive one. Pat

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I seriously doubt that you do more bush miles than most if the only encounter you have had is with a Duck and yet this duck still took out a headlight which on a Landrover isn't a cheap replacement.
Many of us travel where livestock and wildlife is a Real problem and a Bullbar is a necessity to prevent terminal damage to the front of the vehicle and that's why we have them fitted.
The cost of an animal strike to a landrover will Far outweigh the cost of getting a Bullbar fitted that will stop this sort of damage and even after a decent animal strike with a Bullbar fitted you can usually still get yourself home, Without it you are sitting on the road waiting for a flat top.