Won’t be retro...

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Originally Posted by Zeros

JLR dropped the serious 4X4 development ball years ago.

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In some ways maybe, but it really depends what the individual calls a serious 4x4.
Some would say a serious 4x4 needs to be safe for long distances for a family yet reliable and capable enough to do the job and get you home.

So if LR had serious 4x4s in the past as you say and many 4x4 experts would agree the 2016 defender was one of the last remaining serious 4x4s you could drive out of the factory and around oz without many if any mods, and the new defender is on record as being their most capable yet, It doesn't really work in with the theory JLR dropped the serious 4x4 development ball years ago imo.

Just a few recent ones that set the benchmark again for other brands:

Long travel reliable crosslinked height adjustable air suspension.
Terrain response
Wading as deep as you can wade without a snorkel(900mm)

New defender looks to be a pretty big focus on serious 4x4 devel, in fact it looks to be just that imo.

All pretty serious stuff.

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Originally Posted by garrycol

Well I agree if they just concentrate on the top end they will go broke, but the die hard market is nothing and if they aim there they will definitely go broke - they need to meet the middle ground - producing vehicles aimed at the Mums and Dads of the middle classes who wants a vehicle to take the kids to the soccer, drive to work, and head offroad a bit from time to time or just down a country road.

LR learnt that in the late 80s where the 110 was not cutting it, and the RR was moving up market so the Disco was born. They need to relearn this and bring the Disco back to its roots - on the Aussie market for about $60K and these days, a comfortable ute (not a defender style) is needed.

The crusty old Die Hards nearly killed LR once and they will do it again if they have their way.

Garry

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Largely agree, interestingly just saw the disco advertised on tv for 79k drive away, thats an SE also.
Discovery Offer
Thats a pretty low price for the car you are getting.
I think a base fender will come in under the disco, somewhere between 65k and 75k in oz defending on how much they think they can charge for the value people perceive.
Defender will no doubt do a ute, doubt it for disco as its between Defender and RRV

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Originally Posted by goingbush

Probably the only thing that will stop them going broke at this point is if they start making 100% Electric right now, Hybrids are a waste of space and weight. They will not claw the Chinese market back any other way. Rest of the world is a drop in the ocean and Australia is nothing at all.

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Ipace made and avail and selling well.

Defender is next from all indicators.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

The styling of the mule doesn't mean much as I assume its wearing covers over its real skin.
They've said many times they want to displace the Hilux, and its wagon version the Fortuner, in that segment of the market. They will have seen how well Ford has done with the Ranger and VW with the Amarok. The ute/wagon with work and family versions is where the action is.
I reckon they will offer basic, middle and luxury versions of the Defender in single and dual cabs and three and five door wagons. Engines will be diesel, petrol, hydrid (as in the RRS) and EV (as in the I-Pace). Wheelbases will be about 90 and 110, possibly also something longer like a 130. My guesses.

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Spot on, they will not be playing around with the defender.

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Originally Posted by Zeros

I reckon all roadhouses will have EV rapid chargers installed by 2025. It's in their interests.

Given that the majority of revenue generated by roadhouses is not fuel, but actually the sale of coffee and coffee milk! (almost 8 x the price per litre) - the longer the customer stays at the roadhouse (charging their vehicle for free) the better for business. No more 8c off per litre if you buy a chocolate bar. It will be free charge if you buy an iced coffee.

Granted it's on a major highway - but I saw a big bank of rapid EV chargers at a roadhouse on the hume highway - alongside a bank of at least 60 solar panels. ...These will go in everywhere in the next few years.

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Agree, solar is already ontop of allot of new bp servos

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Originally Posted by goingbush

Make that 600km but in the scheme of things its a Moot Point really , With the exception of a hundred or so members on here how many LandRovers are actually used to cross the Nullabor or go outback. 99.5% are used exclusively in Urban environments for 99.5% of the time .

New H tech emerging gives a 5000Km range with 'refillable' batteries , So no need for outback Charging infrastructure & no need for a dense network of Hydrogen fill stations.

"Refillable" battery tech could allow electric cars over 5000km range | RenewEconomy

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Wow!

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Originally Posted by TB

You guys talking about EVs are totally missing the key point: there's not enough electricity available to support mass adoption, and even if you did install lots of big power points there'd be not enough juice to make use of them. And no you won't get the required amount of energy from solar.

A typical large EV battery holds an amount of energy that would run a typical family home for several days (and gives about 500km of range, lightly loaded). So replacing one working-class ICE vehicle with BEV is roughly comparable (order of magnitude) to adding one typical household's demand to the electrical grid. Even if there's 50% margin of error in those figures it still gives a sense of the scale of the demand we're talking about.

Electrifying our transport fleet means creating huge amounts of additional electrical generation at a time when we're already deeply divided about the necessity vs cost of replacing our existing fossil fuel-based power plants with zero-emission sources. Those who insist we have to use primarily wind and solar are arguing for a steep reduction in overall energy production, not an increase.

If you want widespread use of EVs, you need to support massive investments in expanding our power infrastructure. If you want to get rid of greenhouse gas emissions at the same time... you have no option but nuclear.

Which is why I think LR will be selling mostly ICE vehicles in Australia for quite a few years yet.

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Very good points

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Originally Posted by goingbush

That is simply incorrect. I have a 5kw solar array it does not even cover 1/4 of my north / west facing roof space. I do a daily commute about 25km & charge once every 3 days. The Solar provides the power for the car , the house & still gives credit . If was doing 50km daily the solar would still cover the EV but not all the house . If everyone that bought an EV who had roofspace also installed solar there would still be plenty to go around for those that don't have roof space .

And lets face it if you had an EV and not solar (if you have roof space) you are throwing money down the toilet. (But not as much as you are if your buying Petrol / Diesel. )

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Thats certainly preferable to coal IMO



Perhaps correct , thats is if LR are selling anything at all , they are doomed without China EV sales. Australia gets whats left.

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Most people will be lazy and not do solar until they are forced to by high prices, govt or crazy climate etc.

You EV people also have your head in the sand. There are not enough resources in the world to supply battery related resources if every vehicle in the world was to be EV - will ultimately be a flash in the pan.

With clean energy becoming more efficient and cost effective we will soon be back driving internal combustion engines powered by hydrogen. Once we have the cheap, non polluting power to make the stuff, EV will be history.

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Originally Posted by goingbush

I'll completely forego comfort and ergonomics for practicality. Need hose out interior , need to have an interior that can withstand immersion in fresh (ish) water , if a car becomes a stat write off because it got soggy carpet and seats from being stuck whilst fording it is NOT a practical 4x4 .

Dont want or need anything plush, (cup holder would be good) don't need screens or anything electronic or bluetooth, proper manual controls are practical .

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With the greatest respect, I've been reading that kind of comment for decades - it was a staple of the letters to the editor in Wheels. But the problem is that when they sell a vinyl-seated-no-air-con stripped out a car, the only people who bought them were nuns. And then me, when the nuns were done with them.

With the exception of Toyota with Landcruisers, who seemed to get away with it.