Thread: Won’t be retro...

Originally Posted by rick130

No, I'm 100% correct.
Spring rate is an easy fix, coils, air, torsion bars, it doesn't matter a rats, if you want to carry more mass up the spring rate, but you can't fix an under engineered chassis easily.

Sure bags are the way to go for varying loads, it was a mod I was going to do on the Deefer and relatively easy with the right Firestone truck bag, but the coils worked well once I pulled the înner 140lb coils, and I was taring at 3000kg sans driver in working trim.
It only varied a couple of hundred kg lighter.
And the old girl flexed a lot, lot better than the D5 above, had good ride characteristics and I could travel on a typical roughish dirt track at much higher speeds than I can with the D2 or the ex's GU as I had well over 100mm to the front bump stops and over 130mm at the rear.
Those that have never driven a Deefer think the springing is harsh, but I had front and rear axle pads polished from using up every bit of that wheel travel, and that was just from secondary bitumen roads!
I just didn't need to slow down running through causeways, whoop dee doos, etc.
The suspension was sorted.

Try driving those roads in most cases with typically 20-40mm bump travel (particularly with IS) and you are either constantly on the brakes or crashing hard through onto the bump stops with the subsequent stress transmitting through the chassis and ultimately leading to premature fatigue cracking.

For sure. There is no doubt the current crop of LR is a compromise. They sacrifice comfortable travel in rough off-road conditions (especially in full height!) for on road performance. Cheers

Originally Posted by rick130

No, I'm 100% correct.
Spring rate is an easy fix, coils, air, torsion bars, it doesn't matter a rats, if you want to carry more mass up the spring rate, but you can't fix an under engineered chassis easily.

Sure bags are the way to go for varying loads, it was a mod I was going to do on the Deefer and relatively easy with the right Firestone truck bag, but the coils worked well once I pulled the înner 140lb coils, and I was taring at 3000kg sans driver in working trim.
It only varied a couple of hundred kg lighter.
And the old girl flexed a lot, lot better than the D5 above, had good ride characteristics and I could travel on a typical roughish dirt track at much higher speeds than I can with the D2 or the ex's GU as I had well over 100mm to the front bump stops and over 130mm at the rear.
Those that have never driven a Deefer think the springing is harsh, but I had front and rear axle pads polished from using up every bit of that wheel travel, and that was just from secondary bitumen roads!
I just didn't need to slow down running through causeways, whoop dee doos, etc.
The suspension was sorted.

Try driving those roads in most cases with typically 20-40mm bump travel (particularly with IS) and you are either constantly on the brakes or crashing hard through onto the bump stops with the subsequent stress transmitting through the chassis and ultimately leading to premature fatigue cracking.

And humble too

Whilst i'd love to agree with you this part of your statement is not 100% correct imo

Originally Posted by rick130

not the spring rate that determines load capability

If your spring rate is wrong, you have no ability to drive safely or 4wd with your payload.

Without air there is always going to be a compromise unless your always carrying a similar load all the time.

I know this i have been trying different coils for years to find nirvana for around town and fully loaded upgraded gvm Camping trips.

For this reason, trucks, buses and some load carrying mining equipment use air.

I agree about chassis strength and brakes needing to be up to the job as PART of the capacity equation. Just look at the patrols cracking and the fixes needed.

I can't see spring rate, travel, brakes or chassis strength being an issue with the new defender, it will no doubt be adaptable safely from 1kg load to approx 1000kg load from the factory.

Time will tell how it fares with full payload at 80kph through the desert.

I think we are both right, just coming at it from different parts of the equation, then again i could be 100% wrong .

Which takes us back to the desert payload test as above in my last post, which do you think would last the longest before breaking and why?

so is this the system your all raving about.



Live axles and Difflocks will do this without any revving or wheel-spin whatsoever.

Originally Posted by goingbush

so is this the system your all raving about.



Live axles and Difflocks will do this without any revving or wheel-spin whatsoever.

Wow, whoever made that vid is a legend, did you notice in rock crawl even with 3 wheels no traction, around 1/3 of a wheel rotation and he is off.

I guess the benefits are you can still steer and its auto on/off letting you focus on the driving.

I run twin lockers on the rangie and there is no stopping it.

I wonder with TR in LRs, does it have the brains to avoid you tipping over just like twin locking in a live axle and driving up something until you flip?

I think that is testing the Traction Control more than the Terrain Response settings....

Ok watching this on Goodwood last night the 90 was having a thrash on the hill again.. only this time it sounded very much like a V8 and even the commentator said "that sounds like a V8 power" and his partner said ""certainly does".. I'm not sure what was going on, either it was a very throaty 6 or it was a V8 or we are all mistaken

Originally Posted by cripesamighty

I think that is testing the Traction Control more than the Terrain Response settings....

Its all integrated

It's pretty good for a bog-stock car out of the showroom!