Thread: Won’t be retro...

Originally Posted by JDNSW

The thing I like most about my 110 is that I can drive the lonely 17km from the bitumen to my place without worrying that something is going to break if I take one of the bumps or the dips or the great lumps of rock a bit fast, and that if there is a tree down across the road I can expect to be able to drive over it without getting stuck and without any damage other than a few scratches. And that the roo I don't see in time will not do serious damage. Will the new one do as well?

(The only road damage failures I have had have been a bent tie rod, a cracked front diff housing, and the failure of a front radius arm chassis anchorage. The last was the only serious one, and was due to a missed weld in chassis manufacture - but even then it did not fail until about 400,000km.)

Couldn't resist but all 3 of those failures you won't have on the new one

Originally Posted by blackrangie

Couldn't resist but all 3 of those failures you won't have on the new one

Agree with the above but all of the above were found and diagnosed by the owner, no trip to the maindealer for a plug in to the diagnostics. Also all of the above are easily remedied.
About the only problem that the new model will have in common with the existing model is "water ingress" and that problem can be diagnosed by the owner. Maybe there is hope yet...

Originally Posted by ozscott

There is no reason why the new Deefer will not give the similiar levels of toughness. Especially with underbody shielding. While live axles in Deefer and D1,D2 are solid lumps the Deefer I dependent suspension should take a decent whack. Whether it will survive having the IFS IRS arms dropped.hard onto rocks like the arms of live axle LR can take remains to be seen.

Cheers

Whether the underbody shielding will withstand impacts from large rocks may be a question, and also there is the potentially series issue of these underbody shields accumulation vegetable matter that becomes a serious fire risk when doing a lot of driving through dry grass.

One of the issues not often thought about with this sort of design is that with a solid axle suspension, the ground clearance (typically) remains the same at full suspension deflection, for example when hitting a dip at high speed. With independent suspension, this is not the case.

I experienced this many years ago in a Citroen ID. High ground clearance with the suspension on high, and very good suspension encouraged high speed on a road similar to mine. The result was that the shield under the inboard front brakes hit a rock, in turn hit the edge of the disk, and broke the gearbox outrigger casting.

And I have seen any number of independently suspended cars and utes with holes in the sump.

This does not mean it is not possible to design an independent system that is not vulnerable to damage - just that it is a lot harder, and one wonders whether this new model has succeeded. Experience with the D3/4 has no doubt provided a lot of data, but these do not usually get the thrashing that work vehicles do.

Yep understand your point. I am a big fan of live axle. It's all.about what we can or can't or will or won't do without when going to a new vehicle. Maybe it's my age, but there are other factors too that make me interested in the new Deefer...The first vehicle to truly peak my interest since buying my D2 17 years ago. I will probably be willing to.accept that its suspension components wont have quite the same raw resistance to.damage as the D2 but having seen what D3 and 4 can cop I would be happy.with that.

Having said that I towed my boat with my 4.6 yesterday and 20 years after its introduction it's still a class.act.

Cheers

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Whether the underbody shielding will withstand impacts from large rocks may be a question, and also there is the potentially series issue of these underbody shields accumulation vegetable matter that becomes a serious fire risk when doing a lot of driving through dry grass.

One of the issues not often thought about with this sort of design is that with a solid axle suspension, the ground clearance (typically) remains the same at full suspension deflection, for example when hitting a dip at high speed. With independent suspension, this is not the case.

I experienced this many years ago in a Citroen ID. High ground clearance with the suspension on high, and very good suspension encouraged high speed on a road similar to mine. The result was that the shield under the inboard front brakes hit a rock, in turn hit the edge of the disk, and broke the gearbox outrigger casting.

And I have seen any number of independently suspended cars and utes with holes in the sump.

This does not mean it is not possible to design an independent system that is not vulnerable to damage - just that it is a lot harder, and one wonders whether this new model has succeeded. Experience with the D3/4 has no doubt provided a lot of data, but these do not usually get the thrashing that work vehicles do.

This is about where a good “Camel Trophy” type run should help sort things out.

I think the difference between old and new is the way we drive them these days too. Hard work in a car is done a lot slower now, and encouraged by the tech supplied. Gone are the days of “bashing” our way through the scrub, these days it’s all about placement and traction.

Something I think that is missed by the target audience of the LR2020

Is for them an off-road trip is a toddle along a fire trail or rutted track or a trip across the Simpson or up the OTL.

All well and good and I’m sure the LR2020 will do that admirably

Where that is different to a workhorse is for people that say have a tray full of “stuff” and working through an area with no tracks or cross county paddock or as a forestry vehicle etc etc

And even in a recreational capacity sometimes you need something tough not pretty?
Having lived on the cape and spent a bit of time traversing Cross country (private property) straight after the wet season it was always my defender or a mates troopy taking the lead .... everything from bottomless gullies to unseen logs in the long grass or pushing small saplings - the SUV wagons (prado, 200, GU etc ) were all very happy to NOT take the lead ....

There is no doubt

Johns County or any number of Defenders WERE workhorses
This LR2020 is just another SUV

It will be soft in places that all SUVs are, soft to make it have better road manners, soft to make sales, I think that is why I’m disappointed - not so much due to technology or whizz bangery, stoopid 18” Tina is unforgivable but otherwise it is just that little bit soft... like all discoveries and range rovers

As noted above one aspect which is definitely a “soft” factor is the overall ground clearance. Not space under the pumpkins but space under the sills / chassis / sump. I’ve never needed either of my defenders to be lower for on-road work they happily travel at the speed limit. I really don’t care that the new LR2020 can do 250MPH around the Nurburgring that’s not what a defender is about.

About sums up my coffee deplete ramblings.

S

I agree with some if that mate. Can't say that Disco 1,2 and RRC were soft. Don't forget there were plenty of commercial versions of the D1 and 2 running around the UK working hard (For example towing 3 tonn irrigators around day in day out in ploughed fields). Same basic underpinnings as a modern 110 (in fact stronger in places that Puma...). And a vehicle can be strong and pretty. The original Defender looks dainty and toy like to some. I like it but some would say it's a softer vehicle compared to the early Toyotas.

On the OTT at the cape my slightly lifted D2 went places only a fully locked 4 inch lifted 75 with 34 muddied went and where mates in D3 and 4 couldn't quite go. But the new Deefer should be considerably more capable than D3 and 4.

I am prepares to give the new one the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. I will assess it when it comes out because I want it to be rugged.

Anyway just MHO on a vehicle we still no comparatively little about. But enough to peak a lot of interest.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Chops

This is about where a good “Camel Trophy” type run should help sort things out.

I think the difference between old and new is the way we drive them these days too. Hard work in a car is done a lot slower now, and encouraged by the tech supplied. Gone are the days of “bashing” our way through the scrub, these days it’s all about placement and traction.

It's always been about "placement and traction" Chops, it's just that you're older and wiser now.