Thread: Some better spy shots at last!

Originally Posted by 1nando

D5= not a serious HD offroad vehicle. My opinion

Just like a new patrol

Originally Posted by roverrescue

D5, like evoque is for the car park
Doesn’t even compute as a four by

Why not?

Originally Posted by 1nando

D5= not a serious HD offroad vehicle. My opinion

Agreed

Originally Posted by Vern

Why not?

D5 is an SUV. Sales are plummeting.

These days it’s either luxury SUV, generic dualcab, or antiquated cart sprung 70 series. The world is obsessed with urbanity. 4x4s don’t compute unless they are mommy bling or tradie bling.

Originally Posted by Zeros

D5 is an SUV. Sales are plummeting.

These days it’s either luxury SUV, generic dualcab, or antiquated cart sprung 70 series. The world is obsessed with urbanity. 4x4s don’t compute unless they are mommy bling or tradie bling.

You're right. There was plenty of room in the market for TWO antiquated cart sprung vehicles. The demise of the old Defender just handed Toyota the market (although I think they pretty much already had it).

Every new iteration of these vehicles has brought the same response - 'too fancy for the bush' or words to that effect. Every new iteration also proven the haters wrong.

I don't for an instant question the D5's capability offroad, however the practicality of the design (ie cargo area, tailgate configuration, 3 row seating space, 3rd party accessories etc) is yet to be proven in my mind.

Originally Posted by veebs

You're right. There was plenty of room in the market for TWO antiquated cart sprung vehicles. The demise of the old Defender just handed Toyota the market (although I think they pretty much already had it).

Every new iteration of these vehicles has brought the same response - 'too fancy for the bush' or words to that effect. Every new iteration also proven the haters wrong.

I don't for an instant question the D5's capability offroad, however the practicality of the design (ie cargo area, tailgate configuration, 3 row seating space, 3rd party accessories etc) is yet to be proven in my mind.

Kinda. Except Defender isn’t cart sprung, has four disc brakes and has always had a leading fuel efficient turbo charged diesel. Way ahead of 70 series still IMO.

Originally Posted by Vern

Just like a new patrol

Agreed. Although I'd say the patrol and 200 series are both more HD than the disco 5! Ladder frame chassis is the best platform for HD vehicles, that's why all trucks are ladder frame. This statement is bound to get quiet a few peoples knickers in a twist but it's a fact! Just like diesel engines offer the best fuel economy in working vehicles hauling heavy loads.

Land rover says it wants to build the best offroad vehcile ever; that's what they've promised to deliver.

So let's pause for a minute and analyse that statement by asking a few questions:

Q1) in the defenders niche market who are it's main competitors world wide?
A: wrangler, 70 series, g wagon, y61 patrol (still sold in many parts of the world). They're the 4 main HD overland vehicles sold world wide. Whether you hate or love any of the above mentioned vehicles is irrelevant, it's a fact that these are considered the best vehciles for overland travel. The old defender used to be in this category.

Q2) What do they all have in common?
A) ladder frame chassis, live axels, excellent low range gearing and relatively simple drive trains.

Q3) what makes all those vehicles so attractive to overland owners?
A) relatively simple design, lack of electronics, mechanical levers to engage low and high range, live axels, proven track history, reliable, price point

So taking those 3 questions Into consideration and assuming your after a true HD offroad vehicle I ask myself;

Q) Do I want to pay a premium price for a 4wd wagon with independent suspension, electronics galore, fancy air suspension monocoque built offroader with no track history? This is more than likely what the new defender is going to be.

A) My answer; no! Remember I said assuming you're after a hd offroad vehicle.

If I answered yes however to the above question and wanted something reliable with a proven track history at a premium price then I would be considering a 200 series, g wagon, discovery 4 (not d5, not enough after market gear to protect it), y62 patrol and maybe a Everest..... why the hell would I buy the new defender? Ony some of these however are as HD offroad as the vehicles mentioned in the defenders intended niche market( I listed up the top).

If the new defender however has a similar platform to its niche rivals, with a great engine, ladder frame chassis, live axles, is reliable and at a reasonable price point.....they won't be able to build them quick enough to sell!

My comments are bound to ruffle a few feathers but to me and my logic it makes sense, maybe I'm still a caveman but eh; if it ain't broke don't fix it and that recipe seems to work great for the 70 series, g wagon (most militarys have them now), and jeep!

Originally Posted by 1nando

Q1) in the defenders niche market who are it's main competitors world wide?
A: wrangler, 70 series, g wagon, y61 patrol (still sold in many parts of the world). They're the 4 main HD overland vehicles sold world wide

Even the Patrol owner websites admit that the Y61's 3.0 litre diesel is extremely unreliable - not what I'd be choosing for a trip around the world.