2020 Defender - Current Defender / Series Owners Thoughts...

Blackrangie,
I think the point is whatever gets released IS going to be polarizing
BUT from my perspective this is different to when Tojo released the 200
And 80 series owners all cried into their weetbix...

The difference is a defender is equivalent to a troopy or a cruiser ute

It is being replaced with maybe a 200 (likely a Rav4) and maybe a hilux.



If I wanted a chicks Ute with useless carrying capacity, sports car seating, leather seats and carpet I could have bought and broken any number of useless cars with a tub

I have no need for a chicks Ute

LR perhaps see no distinction between working vehicle and SUV and as such can morph the heritage of defender name onto a SUV

But there is.

I think your point was made in that other post- you want a car that is great is great for 5000km of bitumen then drives well off road. That is a lifestyle vehicle a compromise.

Some people don’t want a car? They want a work vehicle not a lifestyle vehicle.


Aaannnnd besides it will be stupid expensive with silly $4000 “options” to get a USB charger etc etc so despite the spin that they want to sell like Toyota’s this thing will be the biggest worlds best marketing hype ever... it will be a luxury lifestyle vehicle and they will maybe sell a few more than D5 but not that many....

S

Well, IMHO, this is just regurgitating more of the same, as NO-ONE has any real idea about the "New" Defender. Please note, I'm NOT having a go at anyone, if anyone wants to talk about, go for it, I just don't see the point.
Whatever it is, or is not, a good low mileage, original Puma, AFAIAC, is looking increasingly attractive as time goes by,....and by the way, I ain't biased, because I don't own one any more, just my opinion.
Pickles.

This is a thread for Defender owners to discus the 2020 Defender from their perspective.

The thread is intended as a point of difference to the Won’t be Retro thread, which has essentially become a Land Rover promotional thread. Some Defender owners don’t feel free to discuss their points of view in that thread for various reasons.

Many Defender / Series owners are very disappointed in the way in which Land Rover have handled the development of the next Defender and the way in which the new Defender looks to be shaping up.

The qualification required for this thread is Defender / Series ownership.

If you haven’t or don’t own a Defender / Series vehicle please discuss the 2020 Defender on a different thread. Respectfully if you don’t own one you don’t have skin in the game and your priorities regarding what the new Defender should be are likely not the same as Defender owners.

It’s refreshing already to read some perspectives by actual Defender owners, not dominated by non-Defender owning commentators and promotional material.

Cheers Zeros.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeros

This is a thread for Defender owners to discus the 2020 Defender from their perspective.

The thread is intended as a point of difference to the Won’t be Retro thread, which has essentially become a Land Rover promotional thread. Some Defender owners don’t feel free to discuss their points of view in that thread for various reasons.

Many Defender / Series owners are very disappointed in the way in which Land Rover have handled the development of the next Defender and the way in which the new Defender looks to be shaping up.

The qualification required for this thread is Defender / Series ownership.

If you haven’t or don’t own a Defender / Series vehicle please discuss the 2020 Defender on a different thread. Respectfully if you don’t own one you don’t have skin in the game and your priorities regarding what the new Defender should be are likely not the same as Defender owners.

It’s refreshing already to read some perspectives by actual Defender owners, not dominated by non-Defender owning commentators and promotional material.

Cheers Zeros.

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I hear what you say, but I respectfully disagree.
Like I said, (& all IMHO), just because I don't currently own one makes absolutely no difference to the opinions I've always had, and still have, which haven't changed, and they are that my wife & I absolutely LOVED our Defender, it was one of the most character filled and enjoyable vehicles that we've ever owned, and we've owned a few.
So, I have nothing but good to say about Defender, I've followed all of the so called "info" on the "new" one, none of which is based on any REAL fact, because JLR have kept their "secret" so well!
As far as current owners being "disappointed"?.....yes I can see that, but that's just the point, I don't think JLR will be too concerned with "current owners" with only around 13000 sold in the year prior to the last "rush", where from memory I think the figure was approaching 15,000, a miniscule figure in the scheme of things. JLR will, IMHO anyway, whilst of course being "interested" in current Defender owners' opinions, will also be "interested" in a great many more "opinions" as they seek a greatly expanded market than that which applied to the "old" Defender.
All just, IMHO of course.
Pickles

As said in the other threads, it will be a mess of complex wiring and components.
It wont be versatile and I dont mean the ability to enter underground carparks, I mean it wont be able to do a days work.
Soft and weak panel work more focused on looks than function, I wouldnt be climbing on the bonnet or fenders like I can on a series.
18"-20" rims? Really? they are only useful with 40"of rubber around them.
"Body Off" work in a series or defender is the norm and hassle free, the new defender will require a workshop of equipment to do the simplest of work, no more roadside work.
What looks like a crap seating position for a 4x4, no field of view like series and older discos
No PTO, No manual box, No live axles, No character at all
Will it be a good car to drive on and offroad? Sure it will be awsome.
Will it be a defender/series? No way in hell, Just a product for the modern glamper, I even doubt it will be tradie bling like all the other utes and 4x4s out there.

Hi Def etc owners, I one a puma 130cc (second one), have owned all series and defender and 110 models, raced a RR 2 door,and a P76 auto ute ,built a few, so feel I can comment.

To me a key 'gripe'may be that the new one--and my dealer says it IS coming and will be like a D4 not a D5 which he said is hardly moving out the door despite being a good vehicle but few want one--- may not be able to be modified/customised like a lot of us can and like to do up until now ( my stage one ambo a case in point started as an Isuzu SW and we converted to a Vietnam ambo body, got AJ to do a 110 front end with coils, discs, PAS etc--and all legal--well I think the way rego people are now this sort of mod/custom job will become very difficult with newer cars.

So I think the new Def will be great but not able to satisfy the desire to customise like many of us do, and this is ignoring its purchase price. If a ute does appear, and not guaranteed yet--but am sure the market will decide this then if varying bodies can be added then great.

Finally, and only my view--is that many of us feel our LR has a sole--ie we feel good when working on and using it BUT do Toyota etc and the more modern JLR owners get that feeling--or is it just a car to them-recently we did the Ridgetop Tour at Arkaroola in their LC --we were in a 200 series auto--and I could not help but feel that it was so much more comfortable and agile than my Def--yet I could not fall in love with it!
Are theses the reasons some of us are concerned--and of course they will be/partly electric but not sure I can recharge at Dalhousie for eg.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

I hear what you say, but I respectfully disagree.
Like I said, (& all IMHO), just because I don't currently own one makes absolutely no difference to the opinions I've always had, and still have, which haven't changed, and they are that my wife & I absolutely LOVED our Defender, it was one of the most character filled and enjoyable vehicles that we've ever owned, and we've owned a few.
So, I have nothing but good to say about Defender, I've followed all of the so called "info" on the "new" one, none of which is based on any REAL fact, because JLR have kept their "secret" so well!
As far as current owners being "disappointed"?.....yes I can see that, but that's just the point, I don't think JLR will be too concerned with "current owners" with only around 13000 sold in the year prior to the last "rush", where from memory I think the figure was approaching 15,000, a miniscule figure in the scheme of things. JLR will, IMHO anyway, whilst of course being "interested" in current Defender owners' opinions, will also be "interested" in a great many more "opinions" as they seek a greatly expanded market than that which applied to the "old" Defender.
All just, IMHO of course.
Pickles

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All important in the discussion Pickles, and as I say in previous post... "If you haven’t or don’t own a Defender / Series vehicle" ...as such your past experience is absolutely relevant IMO.

Whilst it seems obvious that JLR are not all that interested in current Defender owners as potential future owners of new Defender, there is also a common misconception going around that owners of Current Defenders want a replica of the past. I don't believe this to be true.

IMO current Defender owners want a new model which is compatible with what they use their current Defender for, whether it's as a HD work ute, or a HD touring vehicle - designed primarily for the bush, not primarily for urban living.

The problem JLR will face if the new Defender is designed primarily for urban living (not the bush) like all it's other current models, is a distinct lack of diversity in terms of buyers. New Defender buyers will be competing with new Discovery buyers for example.

This is the basis of my concern about how the new Defender looks to be shaping up. Obviously actual details are very thin on the ground. But the point is, current Defender owners have differing opinions from many aspirational new Defender owners as to what the vehicle needs to be.

If JLR don't want to cater to current Defender owners needs, I would argue that rather than an increased market they may find a reduced market for both Defender and Discovery! ...with current Defender owners defecting to Toyota (as some here are already talking about) and current Discovery owners defecting to new Defender (as some are also quite excited about).

The reason only 13,000 Defenders sold in the last year, has a lot to do with JLR not updating the model earlier and already losing many customers to other brands. IMO if the new Defender is another SUV and not a HD work vehicle, they will also lose the majority of those 13,000 customers, including me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

Blackrangie,
I think the point is whatever gets released IS going to be polarizing
BUT from my perspective this is different to when Tojo released the 200
And 80 series owners all cried into their weetbix...

The difference is a defender is equivalent to a troopy or a cruiser ute

It is being replaced with maybe a 200 (likely a Rav4) and maybe a hilux.



If I wanted a chicks Ute with useless carrying capacity, sports car seating, leather seats and carpet I could have bought and broken any number of useless cars with a tub

I have no need for a chicks Ute

LR perhaps see no distinction between working vehicle and SUV and as such can morph the heritage of defender name onto a SUV

But there is.

I think your point was made in that other post- you want a car that is great is great for 5000km of bitumen then drives well off road. That is a lifestyle vehicle a compromise.

Some people don’t want a car? They want a work vehicle not a lifestyle vehicle.


Aaannnnd besides it will be stupid expensive with silly $4000 “options” to get a USB charger etc etc so despite the spin that they want to sell like Toyota’s this thing will be the biggest worlds best marketing hype ever... it will be a luxury lifestyle vehicle and they will maybe sell a few more than D5 but not that many....

S

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Some good points, would love to get your thoughts over on this wont be retro thread post.

There seems to be the last skerric of hope for new defender deniers that it cant possibly be a vehicle that can do a days work, in many ways it infact will be much more suited to towing and payload carrying amd do it safer, than not only the current defender but also other well known other brand work trucks.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l660-defe...st2900016.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeros

The reason only 13,000 Defenders sold in the last year, has a lot to do with JLR not updating the model earlier and already losing many customers to other brands. IMO if the new Defender is another SUV and not a HD work vehicle, they will also lose the majority of those 13,000 customers, including me.

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They actually sold double that in the last year

I own an 80", Series II, Series III, Defender 130 TD5 and a 300tdi Discovery. I've had zero interest in anything Land Rover has built since the Defender and Discovery II - too much focus on expensive, complex luxury vehicles for my liking. The new Defender will likely be more of the same whether the styling looks retro or not. If I were in the market for a new 4wd today I'd probably be looking at the new Jimny.

That said, a focus on luxury vehicles was probably the only way Land Rover was going to survive and thrive over the last 10-20 years - the commercial/farming market was long gone outside of the UK and Europe and the volume SUV market was moving away from the reasonably simple and capable offering of RRC, Disco 1 and II anyway. Seems like current Defender owners want Land Rover to build a 70 series and the market probably isn't there. Not even Toyota is really investing in that product.

But my contrarian view is this: as much as I love them, the Series III and Defender should really never have been built anyway. All the technology was there in 1970 to build a really successful and innovative 4wd to head off the likes of the 40 (and later) 70 series offerings from Toyota. With a little more investment, Land Rover could have been churning out V8 powered, coil sprung 110 and 130 utes with Range Rover derived cabins in the early 70s. The Santana 6 cylinder diesel (around at the time) would have been a great addition too. Instead we got a plastic grille, and it took another decade to use the Range Rover chassis and drivetrain, but with an uncomfortable and outdated body grafted on. Of course, the implosion of British industry in the 70s prevented the dream from becoming a reality, but one of the great 'what if's' I reckon.