Thread: 2020 Defender - Current Defender / Series Owners Thoughts...

Do you or have you ever owned a Defender Blackrangie?

I think coming from a series, I understand your comments as I respect the agricultural simplicity of the series defenders.

Originally Posted by LRJim

As said in the other threads, it will be a mess of complex wiring and components.

From what I have seen so far it will most likely be the most simple and rugged of the current Land Rovers also I would argue that the wiring in newer Land Rovers is more reliable than older ones this despite the fact there is more of it. Having a Range Rover classic I understand the fear of wiring more than anyone. To be honest modern wiring is one of the main reasons I am looking to upgrade. Have you seen a plane wiring loom? They are the most reliable vehicles on the planet and the most complex at the same time however they can achieve amazing things.

Originally Posted by LRJim

It wont be versatile and I dont mean the ability to enter underground carparks, I mean it wont be able to do a days work.
Soft and weak panel work more focused on looks than function, I wouldnt be climbing on the bonnet or fenders like I can on a series.

I would argue that modern monocoque Land Rovers are in fact much stiffer and the panel work better put together than the older ones. They will also seal a lot better.
I'm sure kits will become available to enable walking on the new Defenders bonnet without damaging it just like the current Defenders, however not being able to walk on a bonnet of a car does not excluder a four by four from being a potential workhorse, when is the last time you saw someone walking on a g wagen professional bonnet or a 79 series dual cab bonnet, or even a Hilux bonnet (biggest work ute seller) don't get me wrong I hope we can walk on the new defenders bonnet too, but it would not be a deal breaker for me or the market it would seem.

Originally Posted by LRJim

18"-20" rims? Really? they are only useful with 40"of rubber around them.

Times are changing, safety is needed on any cars that go over 80 km per hour on the freeway. The market today also demands on road performance with off-road performance. Especially if people are travelling long distances and don't have the luxury of doing it at 80 km per hour over three months. It about getting the right balance 6inches of sidewall with the modern LT tyres have proven reliable on/offroad on 18-20 inch wheels. Looks like moab vehicles are running 32s stock, so 34s easily added with little or no mods by the looks of the guard clearance.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l660-defe...st2900013.html

Originally Posted by LRJim

"Body Off" work in a series or defender is the norm and hassle free, the new defender will require a workshop of equipment to do the simplest of work, no more roadside work.

I would argue based on my own experience and the experience on this forum that despite being harder to work on and fix on the trail, newer Land Rovers actually don't break down anywhere near as much as the older ones. They seem to be able to cover great distances in a variety of terrains with very little actually going wrong with them, if something does go wrong it is usually a minor issue and can be cleared with scan tools.

Originally Posted by LRJim

What looks like a crap seating position for a 4x4, no field of view like series and older discos

Well judging by the fact that most modern cars have adjustable height seating I don't think this will be an issue and from what we have seen in the leaked photos there is also a third front seat which I believe is very similar to the old series vehicles.

Originally Posted by LRJim

Will it be a good car to drive on and offroad? Sure it will be awsome.

Agree with this, the testers at MOAB as seen in the won't be retro thread are reported to have been very impressed with how the new Defenders car handling MOAB

I'm not trying to disagree with you at all just giving a different point of view it is good to be challenged on our viewpoints just as you are challenging me.

Either way as has already been stated many times it is great that Land Rover made the series Land Rovers and still are backing them up, they realise the importance of them.

They will be around for a very long time to come long after many modern vehicles are in the scrap yard.

The modern Defender will have it's place too and hopefully it lives up to its heritage of being rugged and durable as JLR are promising.

I'm particularly excited about what is going to be available for the defender in a few years after the American aftermarket sinks it's teeth into it like it has with the Jeep.

It's really quite amazing how much was available for the old Defender even without huge numbers being sold in the states.

Originally Posted by blackrangie

They actually sold double that in the last year

In 2015, there was the "rush", because they weren't making them any more, that was the only year when production increased,...some years they didn't even make 13000.
Pickles.

Originally Posted by Pickles2

In 2015, there was the "rush", because they weren't making them any more, that was the only year when production increased,...some years they didn't even make 13000.
Pickles.

Yeah i remember it, old defender had terrible sales, they defender was great in many ways, I bet dealers wished they had double the stock that year. They could have almost named their price toward the end.

One of the main reasons the New Defender wont be a carbon copy is the shocking sales. I think first version of evoque sold nearly as many as all defenders combined.

They will be chasing 6 digit sales figures with the New Defender, from what i have seen they will get it and then some. They will also attain segment market share. Having said that there will be a few more competitors around come 2020.

Originally Posted by Zeros

Do you or have you ever owned a Defender Blackrangie?

Good point,if you don't actually own one,or have one provided as a company car,you will never know what its actually like.

You can read this,read that,look or drive one that a mate has or his uncle,or his brother,but if you don't have the vehicle day in and day out,you really don't have a good understanding of the vehicle,or know what its all about.

Same goes for a Toyota,as an example,some on here give other vehicles or brands a bash, and have never owned one,so in fact they really have no idea, or for that matter any other type/brand of vehicle.

Just saying,not trying to cause an argument,its a fact.

The D4 i have,as an example, has taken years to understand and work out how it all works,in many different driving conditions.Same with the Deefer my son has,i have spent a lot of time driving it in many conditions.

Back sort of on topic,I think the main issue with this new Deefer,is, JLR have once again moved a vehicle into a new class,as they did with the Discovery.Thats why it should be called something else as its not really a Defender as we all know one,and what a Defender in our eyes is,nor is a D5,still a Discovery.The D5 is really in the RRS,RR class.

Those that want a new vehicle in the old Defender class,won't go near a new one.

Looking at other brands,their vehicles generally stay in the same or very similar class to what the have always been in,think Patrol,Prado,LC80/100/200,Pajero,Pathfinder,LC 70 series,RAv4,and some LR's,Freelander,even RR.

JLR's vehicles used to stay in similar classes,but it seems in the last few years,their aim is to push vehicles into new classes,whether this is good or not,who knows,but it definitely changes their customer base.Many other vehicle brands seem to stay with the same customer base,and their sales talk for themselves.

Blackrange
First I found it crazy that you say they are chasing 6 figure sales

Since 2009 entire world wide sales of discovery all types (4,5)
Is only 353k according to Wiki averaging 35-40k a year

And since the 2020chicksdefender will be more like a 4 than anything
If they are lucky LR may crack 5 digit sales world wide???

The problem will be the 2020chicksdedender is merely going to scalp sales from elsewhere
In the company - even if they make a Ute version of the 2020chicksdefender it will never compete with
HilurangerBT50 etc etc as it will be too expensive

I’ll be surprised if worldwide they sell 40,000 a year of them

S

The significance of the above is that Toyota sells 50,000 hiluxes
In Australia alone.... more than the worldwide sales of discovery and likely more than the 2020chicksdefender worldwide.

It will be a niche lifestyle vehicle which has had a marketing excercise to get it started?

LR should have just built and released the bloody thing got it over and done with
Trash the defender name and move on
The thing will pass into the history books within a few years

S

Originally Posted by Zeros

Do you or have you ever owned a Defender Blackrangie?

2020 Defender - Current Defender / Series Owners Thoughts...