Thread: Will be Retro

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Oh dear
Where do I start!


No they won’t outsell Landcruiser
Unless they open about 250 new dealerships

Agreed.

Originally Posted by roverrescue

But now onto the Gold! Last two paragraphs


“Fortunately, there are enough people in this world that love to buy a car from their heart rather than their head. And the old Defender in its latter years was definitely a heart decision rather than a head decision. What we have to do with the new car then is still deliver on the affection side and emotional attributes, but correct the errors that affect a 70-year-old car.”

Mr Cameron like the rest of JLR just don’t get it
They see the defenders actual attributes ie off-road workhorse strengths as errors!

"off-road workhorse strength" - i loved my 130 - but there are no defenders in the (northern) territory - out on the cattle stations, farms, emergency services, you name it. I think "reliability" is part of "off-road workhorse strength" and thats the problem. I suspect its mostly the same down south.

And just because you don't believe you don't own a defender because of emotions (although you are susceptible to this as all humans are) there is a definite portion of defender owners, past or present, that are. So his statement is at least partially correct. My daughter thinks a 90 is so cool and thinks she would love to own one - but I'm fairly confident she wouldn't after a couple of months.

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Defender 2020 was The brands opportunity to expand its range outwards and take some market from areas which are not already flooded. Instead they build another ****ty unreliable unsupported expensive SUV.

S

To be fair they at least trying not to build "another ***tty unreliable unsupported expensive SUV" - hmm ok maybe the expensive bit then... but yeah the proof will be in the pudding. It was never going to be a tractor that you could hose out the sheep dung off the back seat.

Maybe, but keep in mind that Australia is unusually high for Landcruiser sales. And let's exclude the Prado from this discussion. The Landcruiser, including the 70 and 200 series. are not that popular in the rest of the world. For example, they are rarely seen in Asia, where I used to live. So it wouldn't be hard for the new Defender to outsell the Landcruiser.

Also, from the various reports it seems LR is working hard to make the Defender rugged and reliable. And. electronics are pretty reliable nowdays, more reliable than some mechanical systems. Landcruisers are also packed with electronics. His criticisms of the cabin size, safety, on-road driving and cruise liner turning circle of the old Defender were all correct, so hopefully they have all been addressed. So let's not write it off prematurely.

Australia leads global Toyota Land Cruiser sales

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Oh dear
Where do I start!
Thanks for the article with interview with Mr Cameron, definitely nailed his stripes (pinstripes of of his $19,000 Hand made wool suit) to the wall.

First note:

Top ten globally (emphasise NOT Australia) this thing is never going to sell 1000 units a month to put it in top ten Australia 4WDs
And I reckon they are on crack if they think it will do it globally but hey maybe

Yes they may outsell Fortuner sales

No they won’t outsell Landcruiser
Unless they open about 250 new dealerships


But now onto the Gold! Last two paragraphs

“If you look at the rational attributes of the car that we stopped selling in 2016 in terms of its cabin size, its safety, its on-road driving, its turning circle… time had passed it by. But the great thing is that the affection of the old Defender, the amount of money they pass hands for, and the people who drive those in the cities where those attributes I just mentioned rationally don’t work, it’s just iconic.

“Fortunately, there are enough people in this world that love to buy a car from their heart rather than their head. And the old Defender in its latter years was definitely a heart decision rather than a head decision. What we have to do with the new car then is still deliver on the affection side and emotional attributes, but correct the errors that affect a 70-year-old car.”

Mr Cameron like the rest of JLR just don’t get it
They see the defenders actual attributes ie off-road workhorse strengths as errors!
They want none of those actual desirable functional atttibutes just the vibe of the thing in yet
Another ****ing luxo SUV. Unbelievable that they honestly think the purpose of the defender was iconism- city people living some dream!!!! Hahaha talk about myopic thinking!

Defender 2020 was The brands opportunity to expand its range outwards and take some market from areas which are not already flooded. Instead they build another ****ty unreliable unsupported expensive SUV.

S

What is this talk of outselling Toyota, looks like somebody has been twisting the reporters words no one has ever claimed anything of the sort..only claim is that it will be one of JLRs top sellers and they will no doubt conquest sales from another well known brand.

Do i think they could outsell other brands worldwide, maybe for certain models , LR are certainly not claiming that.

Here's a much more accurate article, which admits the partnership speculation.

No new Land Rover Defender bakkie planned 'at the moment'...

BR
Cameron said TOP TEN
To do that you will be outselling Toyota 4WD

JLR are a niche manufacturer in Aus because of a terrible dealer network and long history of unreliability

I agree they can do better and should do better but even if they make a reliable LR

It will still need dealerships (as all the ECUs will be locked ala D5)
And that is why this thing will fail in Australia
Oh and the fact it will be expensive and no dealers

If it came in under $65k like the old one people might chance it
But at 100k plus and closest dealer 200-400-2000km away
People outside of Syd/Mel/Bris won’t buy?

Australia managing director Mark Cameron was hopeful that the 2020 L663-series Defender will become one of the most popular vehicles the brand offers as a result of its broader, everyday appeal.



“We’re a top-ten market globally for that car, and it’s going to be close to one of our best-selling individual nameplates,” he revealed. “If you look at it in that context, and versus the historic affection for the brand and nameplate, and what I know about the car and what it is going to deliver, it is going to be massive for global sales, massive for JLR, and massive for Australia

Clearly referring to the new defender and Australia being a top 10 market for its potential sales. Nothing more.

Hmmmm
Okay
So he is saying of all the countries LR2020 will be sold
Aus will be in the top ten sales volumes (minuscule volumes but more than say New Zealand!)

And that of all their same same expensive SUVs they will sell more of these than the others

But still not very many of them

Soooo despite my poor comprehension I am still correct that they are a small time niche vehicle in Australia with a terrible dealer network!!!
And he misses the point

I bought my first defender because it was the only full size (1.3T) payload dual cab in Aus
I bought the second one because the first one was good at what it did and I didn’t want to pony up huge money and burn twice the fuel in a 79 ?

When the current Puma dies.....

S

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Hmmmm
Okay
So he is saying of all the countries LR2020 will be sold
Aus will be in the top ten sales volumes (minuscule volumes but more than say New Zealand!)

S

Actually, he referred to "markets" - markets and countries are not the same thing. E.g., Europe is a market, South America is a market ....