Thread: Will be Retro

Originally Posted by SBD4

While the power is up there, almost, the torque is not, 430nm vs 600nm. I'm sure it could deliver without too much issue considering the old 2.7 was 140Kw and 440nm but you can't beat the smoothness of the 6 and that effortless punch low down.

The 430 nM (vs the previous 500nM) is an unfortunate trade off for the new emission standards

Originally Posted by TB

Don't forget they were extensively testing a hybrid powertrain. I'm curious to see how that stacks up in terms of output, weight, payload, economy and drivability. Not to mention reliability.

Ahh yes. Definitely, there is the electric drive train to throw in to the mix as well...was only thinking about ICE.

Nothing new here..he looking at the same article as us:

The specs are great, but now seeing it in full, from various angles and in actual colours, it’s a solid nope from me.

I just cannot get my head around Land Rover’s design philosophy. They had one of, if not the most iconic car design of all time in their history and they choose to replace it with a fussy, contrived pastiche. Admittedly the silver one with the smaller wheels and heavier black trim over the arch flares looks better, but there are so many styling cues that just don’t work for me.

The bonnet would have been so easy to solve, but they’ve chosen not to, the grille treatment seems almost wilfully awkward, the lower bumper with all that silver plastic trim looks too much like what manufacturers do to ‘toughen up’ the styling of crossovers. The black banding at the ends of the window pillars is straight off the new RAV4; no-one believes that the roof is ‘floating’ over glass. The proportions are very Hummer H3, with tall, slabby sides and a squat glasshouse. The C-pillar is cribbed from the FJ Cruiser and the tail lights, which I thought might look pretty cool, actually look terrible. What would have been wrong with placing those two larger ‘squircle’ tail lights toward the outer extremities of the rear quarters, much like the original Defenders? Then we wouldn’t need those black bands running down from the rear windows.

Look at the green 90 with the steel wheels; if I’d known nothing about the new Defender and someone showed me that image and told me it was a new Dacia SUV, I doubt I’d have blinked.

I took a look at the new Suzuki Jimny on Saturday and in my opinion, it’s more what the new Defender should be, just in 7/8ths scale. It still has its ladder frame and solid axles, but it has a retro-inspired, welded body that allows every square centimetre of interior volume to be utilised. It has a tough, stylish dash with tactile controls, the obligatory touchscreen sitting high in the centre, cool retro instruments, a nice steering wheel that adjusts for reach and rake, decent seats and more front seat space than a Defender. The doors shut with a solid thud and it has simple niceties like a gas strut to hold the rear door open. It may not have scored five stars in the NCAP tests, but it’s pretty solid, it has airbags and some of the new active safety tech. The more I think about it, it’s more like a modern SI. Now if they’d just offer a lwb model...

Originally Posted by DrytheRain

The specs are great, but now seeing it in full, from various angles and in actual colours, it’s a solid nope from me.

I just cannot get my head around Land Rover’s design philosophy. They had one of, if not the most iconic car design of all time in their history and they choose to replace it with a fussy, contrived pastiche. Admittedly the silver one with the smaller wheels and heavier black trim over the arch flares looks better, but there are so many styling cues that just don’t work for me.

The bonnet would have been so easy to solve, but they’ve chosen not to, the grille treatment seems almost wilfully awkward, the lower bumper with all that silver plastic trim looks too much like what manufacturers do to ‘toughen up’ the styling of crossovers. The black banding at the ends of the window pillars is straight off the new RAV4; no-one believes that the roof is ‘floating’ over glass. The proportions are very Hummer H3, with tall, slabby sides and a squat glasshouse. The C-pillar is cribbed from the FJ Cruiser and the tail lights, which I thought might look pretty cool, actually look terrible. What would have been wrong with placing those two larger ‘squircle’ tail lights toward the outer extremities of the rear quarters, much like the original Defenders? Then we wouldn’t need those black bands running down from the rear windows.

Look at the green 90 with the steel wheels; if I’d known nothing about the new Defender and someone showed me that image and told me it was a new Dacia SUV, I doubt I’d have blinked.

I took a look at the new Suzuki Jimny on Saturday and in my opinion, it’s more what the new Defender should be, just in 7/8ths scale. It still has its ladder frame and solid axles, but it has a retro-inspired, welded body that allows every square centimetre of interior volume to be utilised. It has a tough, stylish dash with tactile controls, the obligatory touchscreen sitting high in the centre, cool retro instruments, a nice steering wheel that adjusts for reach and rake, decent seats and more front seat space than a Defender. The doors shut with a solid thud and it has simple niceties like a gas strut to hold the rear door open. It may not have scored five stars in the NCAP tests, but it’s pretty solid, it has airbags and some of the new active safety tech. The more I think about it, it’s more like a modern SI. Now if they’d just offer a lwb model...

7/8's you wish, would just be half. In this part of the 21st century there is no way the old defender could carry on as it was, sure they could have developed a new chassis and then a wider body to fit but i think what they have produced is the modern equivalent of what was needed for the company to sell it in all markets.

Originally Posted by blackrangie

New vid and pic

YouTube

The video shows what looks like some sort of plastic over-bumper at 7 sec. If it can mount a couple of spot lights and conceal a winch, that's all I would need.

Originally Posted by DrytheRain

The specs are great, but now seeing it in full, from various angles and in actual colours, it’s a solid nope from me.

I just cannot get my head around Land Rover’s design philosophy. They had one of, if not the most iconic car design of all time in their history and they choose to replace it with a fussy, contrived pastiche. Admittedly the silver one with the smaller wheels and heavier black trim over the arch flares looks better, but there are so many styling cues that just don’t work for me.

The bonnet would have been so easy to solve, but they’ve chosen not to, the grille treatment seems almost wilfully awkward, the lower bumper with all that silver plastic trim looks too much like what manufacturers do to ‘toughen up’ the styling of crossovers. The black banding at the ends of the window pillars is straight off the new RAV4; no-one believes that the roof is ‘floating’ over glass. The proportions are very Hummer H3, with tall, slabby sides and a squat glasshouse. The C-pillar is cribbed from the FJ Cruiser and the tail lights, which I thought might look pretty cool, actually look terrible. What would have been wrong with placing those two larger ‘squircle’ tail lights toward the outer extremities of the rear quarters, much like the original Defenders? Then we wouldn’t need those black bands running down from the rear windows.

Look at the green 90 with the steel wheels; if I’d known nothing about the new Defender and someone showed me that image and told me it was a new Dacia SUV, I doubt I’d have blinked.

I took a look at the new Suzuki Jimny on Saturday and in my opinion, it’s more what the new Defender should be, just in 7/8ths scale. It still has its ladder frame and solid axles, but it has a retro-inspired, welded body that allows every square centimetre of interior volume to be utilised. It has a tough, stylish dash with tactile controls, the obligatory touchscreen sitting high in the centre, cool retro instruments, a nice steering wheel that adjusts for reach and rake, decent seats and more front seat space than a Defender. The doors shut with a solid thud and it has simple niceties like a gas strut to hold the rear door open. It may not have scored five stars in the NCAP tests, but it’s pretty solid, it has airbags and some of the new active safety tech. The more I think about it, it’s more like a modern SI. Now if they’d just offer a lwb model...

So it's not for you then?

Originally Posted by loanrangie

7/8's you wish, would just be half. In this part of the 21st century there is no way the old defender could carry on as it was, sure they could have developed a new chassis and then a wider body to fit but i think what they have produced is the modern equivalent of what was needed for the company to sell it in all markets.

Maybe against the new Defender, but I was comparing the new Jimny to the now discontinued 90. 7/8ths is very approximate, but if you run the numbers you’ll be surprised.

I certainly don’t disagree that the new Defender had to move the game on, but I think a ladder chassis would still have been viable, as plenty of manufacturers are building them and getting 5 star NCAP ratings. Solid axles, maybe not so much, at least not up front. The expectation of more refinement and comfort tends to rule them out now too and I’ve made my peace with that.

My point was more that the new Jimny successfully updates an old formula in a thoughtful, modern and in my opinion, quite stylish way. Yet there’s nothing contrived or pretentious about it, apart from maybe some of the two-tone paint schemes. Same with most modern, utilitarian four wheel drives, at least in their more basic trims. However, Land Rover can’t seem to help themselves with fussy detailing and style-over-substance design flourishes. Now they appear to be getting into the tacticool thing with those weird, clip on pannier box things.