Thread: Will be Retro

I have never claimed to be the brightest bloke on the block but I seem to be missing something here. This promotional speak of beefed up suspension, banging the test vehicle off kerbs, into potholes and over gaps is the talk of someone who has forgotten the fundamentals of taking a vehicle off road. You treat your vehicle with respect and if you have a rut or pot hole in your way you tackle it in the correct gear and sufficient speed to surmount the obstacle.
I am sure any of you Antipodeans heading off into the outback with a heavily laden vehicle will not be hammering it along. Why would you when your life could depend on keeping your vehicle functional? Fair enough you will have spares and you will be able to repair most things that need remedying along the way. You will do nightly/morning inspections and tackle the difficult bits with some common sense.
To me it appears that the new vehicle is not being targeted at those who take the sensible softly softly approach but the person who gets in at point A, points the vehicle at point B and opens her up letting the onboard electronics do the brain work. Damage will occur and no doubt be expensive to repair. Those beefed up suspension bushes will no doubt need a hydraulic press with tons of force to replace them. If you were taking it on an expedition you would probably have to book it into a maindealer for a checkup before you leave unlike the older vehicles that you can check your self.
I think it is being pushed at the people who want a "real offroader" but do not want to use brain power to drive it or have common sense to ensure it's longevity. They want a vehicle that does not require these nightly or early morning checks if taken on an expedition. Just to get in, point it in the required direction and have no idea of cause and effect.
Having said all of that (apologies for the rant ),as I said earlier I subscribe to the gently does it approach off road but I could see myself breaking the rules, pointing the vehicle in the required direction and hammering it on. This could possibly occur if I was being pursued by a T Rex or a hoard of Zombies. Yes I would hammer it on cursing the aforementioned T Rex or Zombies and feel every bump and it's possible consequences and have my brain translate every bump and bang into a future repair job.
So in all of the advertising leaks and advertising speak someone forgot to say "By the way we have gotten the water ingress problems sorted out" or did I miss that too?

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Testosterone + Adrenalin = Dumb.
School joke.
Sorry for the hijack.

I can just hear the JLR spokesperson now...
"Yes we have targeted the TAD demographic as potential buyers of the new Defender."

Originally Posted by spudfan

I have never claimed to be the brightest bloke on the block but I seem to be missing something here. This promotional speak of beefed up suspension, banging the test vehicle off kerbs, into potholes and over gaps is the talk of someone who has forgotten the fundamentals of taking a vehicle off road. You treat your vehicle with respect and if you have a rut or pot hole in your way you tackle it in the correct gear and sufficient speed to surmount the obstacle.
I am sure any of you Antipodeans heading off into the outback with a heavily laden vehicle will not be hammering it along. Why would you when your life could depend on keeping your vehicle functional? Fair enough you will have spares and you will be able to repair most things that need remedying along the way. You will do nightly/morning inspections and tackle the difficult bits with some common sense.
To me it appears that the new vehicle is not being targeted at those who take the sensible softly softly approach but the person who gets in at point A, points the vehicle at point B and opens her up letting the onboard electronics do the brain work. Damage will occur and no doubt be expensive to repair. Those beefed up suspension bushes will no doubt need a hydraulic press with tons of force to replace them. If you were taking it on an expedition you would probably have to book it into a maindealer for a checkup before you leave unlike the older vehicles that you can check your self.
I think it is being pushed at the people who want a "real offroader" but do not want to use brain power to drive it or have common sense to ensure it's longevity. They want a vehicle that does not require these nightly or early morning checks if taken on an expedition. Just to get in, point it in the required direction and have no idea of cause and effect.
Having said all of that (apologies for the rant ),as I said earlier I subscribe to the gently does it approach off road but I could see myself breaking the rules, pointing the vehicle in the required direction and hammering it on. This could possibly occur if I was being pursued by a T Rex or a hoard of Zombies. Yes I would hammer it on cursing the aforementioned T Rex or Zombies and feel every bump and it's possible consequences and have my brain translate every bump and bang into a future repair job.
So in all of the advertising leaks and advertising speak someone forgot to say "By the way we have gotten the water ingress problems sorted out" or did I miss that too?

Yeah I get what you are saying but I think they are just ensuring that accidental abuse and long years of off-roading won't kill it. Accidents happen and even trying to drive to the conditions doesn't always work. Who has seen EVERY wash out on higher speed corrugated roads and not hit them at least at some speed crashing in and out. It does happen. I'm happy that they are making it very tough. We know that lives axles are tough but if they have made Indy tough more power to them. It does make a difference. It is a matter that appeals to me and I don't drive like a bogan. I still have 18 year old 350,000klm diffs despite towing a 2 tonn boat for over a decade and a lot of offroading in terrain she only just got over (and its a manual).

Cheers

Yes I agree. Additional development is great if only to improve those pesky hydrobushes, that though they give a great ride, do not have a reputation for longevity...

Originally Posted by ozscott

Yeah I get what you are saying but I think they are just ensuring that accidental abuse and long years of off-roading won't kill it. Accidents happen and even trying to drive to the conditions doesn't always work. Who has seen EVERY wash out on higher speed corrugated roads and not hit them at least at some speed crashing in and out. It does happen. I'm happy that they are making it very tough. We know that lives axles are tough but if they have made Indy tough more power to them. It does make a difference. It is a matter that appeals to me and I don't drive like a bogan. I still have 18 year old 350,000klm diffs despite towing a 2 tonn boat for over a decade and a lot of offroading in terrain she only just got over (and its a manual).

Cheers

Originally Posted by spudfan

I have never claimed to be the brightest bloke on the block but I seem to be missing something here. This promotional speak of beefed up suspension, banging the test vehicle off kerbs, into potholes and over gaps is the talk of someone who has forgotten the fundamentals of taking a vehicle off road. You treat your vehicle with respect and if you have a rut or pot hole in your way you tackle it in the correct gear and sufficient speed to surmount the obstacle.
I am sure any of you Antipodeans heading off into the outback with a heavily laden vehicle will not be hammering it along. Why would you when your life could depend on keeping your vehicle functional? Fair enough you will have spares and you will be able to repair most things that need remedying along the way. You will do nightly/morning inspections and tackle the difficult bits with some common sense.
To me it appears that the new vehicle is not being targeted at those who take the sensible softly softly approach but the person who gets in at point A, points the vehicle at point B and opens her up letting the onboard electronics do the brain work. Damage will occur and no doubt be expensive to repair. Those beefed up suspension bushes will no doubt need a hydraulic press with tons of force to replace them. If you were taking it on an expedition you would probably have to book it into a maindealer for a checkup before you leave unlike the older vehicles that you can check your self.
I think it is being pushed at the people who want a "real offroader" but do not want to use brain power to drive it or have common sense to ensure it's longevity. They want a vehicle that does not require these nightly or early morning checks if taken on an expedition. Just to get in, point it in the required direction and have no idea of cause and effect.
Having said all of that (apologies for the rant ),as I said earlier I subscribe to the gently does it approach off road but I could see myself breaking the rules, pointing the vehicle in the required direction and hammering it on. This could possibly occur if I was being pursued by a T Rex or a hoard of Zombies. Yes I would hammer it on cursing the aforementioned T Rex or Zombies and feel every bump and it's possible consequences and have my brain translate every bump and bang into a future repair job.
So in all of the advertising leaks and advertising speak someone forgot to say "By the way we have gotten the water ingress problems sorted out" or did I miss that too?

Mate they were in a test mule. These are the vehicles they drive, pre and post production to ensure everything works. So their duty cycle is exactly what Weeks said. Banging it into potholes and at speed through water to check for in cabin and electrical protection and the like. This is normal pre production stuff that all vehicle manufacturers do in one form or another. That way the product is as market ready as they can make it. Nothing worse than a string of warranty claims and/or recalls in the first year a vehicle is released. As well and having supported several 4WD releases I have seen how some of the media "test" cars. Also there are owners of 4WD who think they can swim/float and fly. Despite being advised otherwise. Refer YouTube on Victorian High Country and OTT on Cape York.

The same sort of repetitive process applies to tyre testing. Vis driving at various speeds over the same test track/potholed road at different pressures to work out when and how the tyre will fail. Been there and done that.

I still have a clear recollection of doing pre-production testing of Pajero in the North Flinders Ranges. We flogged the cars up a creek that I would never drive in a fit with an engineer and test equipment in the back seat. After a run each way we all got out had a quiet barf, got back in the cars and kept at it until something went bang.

This is the sort of stuff you rarely ever see or hear of and of course who knows how many times the car Weeks was driving has been rebuilt and improved over the test period. That's what is about and how it gets done, just not common knowledge to most.

Vehicle testing has nothing to do with most of real life use but.

Rob

Originally Posted by spudfan

I have never claimed to be the brightest bloke on the block but I seem to be missing something here. This promotional speak of beefed up suspension, banging the test vehicle off kerbs, into potholes and over gaps is the talk of someone who has forgotten the fundamentals of taking a vehicle off road. You treat your vehicle with respect and if you have a rut or pot hole in your way you tackle it in the correct gear and sufficient speed to surmount the obstacle.
I am sure any of you Antipodeans heading off into the outback with a heavily laden vehicle will not be hammering it along. Why would you when your life could depend on keeping your vehicle functional? Fair enough you will have spares and you will be able to repair most things that need remedying along the way. You will do nightly/morning inspections and tackle the difficult bits with some common sense.
To me it appears that the new vehicle is not being targeted at those who take the sensible softly softly approach but the person who gets in at point A, points the vehicle at point B and opens her up letting the onboard electronics do the brain work. Damage will occur and no doubt be expensive to repair. Those beefed up suspension bushes will no doubt need a hydraulic press with tons of force to replace them. If you were taking it on an expedition you would probably have to book it into a maindealer for a checkup before you leave unlike the older vehicles that you can check your self.
I think it is being pushed at the people who want a "real offroader" but do not want to use brain power to drive it or have common sense to ensure it's longevity. They want a vehicle that does not require these nightly or early morning checks if taken on an expedition. Just to get in, point it in the required direction and have no idea of cause and effect.
Having said all of that (apologies for the rant ),as I said earlier I subscribe to the gently does it approach off road but I could see myself breaking the rules, pointing the vehicle in the required direction and hammering it on. This could possibly occur if I was being pursued by a T Rex or a hoard of Zombies. Yes I would hammer it on cursing the aforementioned T Rex or Zombies and feel every bump and it's possible consequences and have my brain translate every bump and bang into a future repair job.
So in all of the advertising leaks and advertising speak someone forgot to say "By the way we have gotten the water ingress problems sorted out" or did I miss that too?

If you have driven the outback, in reality everything they seem to be testing happens whether you like it or not regardless of your age, bulldust holes the size of cars, cattle grates that make the car launch with 1 foot gaps, unexpected droppoffs from water erosion, 2inch high concrete sets (sounds like outback corrugations to me) Here is some d3 testing.

YouTube

The shock monitoring system should also help LR not repeat what happened to the gwagons when they tried to cross AU (CSR from memory)

As for wading, from LRO, d5 is 900mm, current defender 500mm, new defender will be more than d5.

Spud, you can never have too much testing, or hard enough testing.

That clip of the D3 doing the trench pit drive left me wondering about my experience last weekend.
Towing about 3T of caravan, we hit a pothole, then another (both fairly hard I might add). Got to the campsite set up etc, then Saturday morning we head off for a short sightseeing drive. 200mt’s down the road, a pothole, (no van in tow, just the car), then another pothole 200mt’s down the road, 50mts later, front end of the car starts to deflate and we are rough riding on the front bump stops. Essentially the end of our trip. (Not really, but I’m not allowed to touch the car just yet &#128580.
My potholes,, nothing like they’re pit.

Towed home on the back of a flattop truck with van in tow. Lucky for me, I’m “just” still in warranty. As it turns out, it’s a blown air line, (ruptured) in they’re words, and to be replaced.

Testing testing testing. 👍👍👍
Theoretically, they “over engineer” and “test” everything to the maximum. Those of us who actually know how to drive according to terrain won’t need it,,, but they are very aware that fools are given licences, therefore they have to try and make it bullet proof.

Originally Posted by spudfan

I have never claimed to be the brightest bloke on the block but I seem to be missing something here. This promotional speak of beefed up suspension, banging the test vehicle off kerbs, into potholes and over gaps is the talk of someone who has forgotten the fundamentals of taking a vehicle off road. You treat your vehicle with respect and if you have a rut or pot hole in your way you tackle it in the correct gear and sufficient speed to surmount the obstacle ..........as I said earlier I subscribe to the gently does it approach off road but I could see myself breaking the rules ..... So in all of the advertising leaks and advertising speak someone forgot to say "By the way we have gotten the water ingress problems sorted out" or did I miss that too?

All manufacturers test to destruction, and there are also videos on YouTube of the D4 being tested in this way [Edit: the video linked to above, or one similar]. I don't think that it means that they're encouraging that kind of driving.

From my point of view, if for some reason I do hit a kerb at speed I'd like to know that while it might break something the entire front end isn't going to drop off and it's not going to be deadly.