Bull bar

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Originally Posted by one_iota

A couple of other considerations:

Further to Tombies previous post the decision about which bar or any bar also depends on risk exposure. Trout1105 is much more likely to encounter wildlife than me given where I live and the places I drive to and from. If I lived in Geraldton the answer to the question "which bull bar should I have" would most likely be the same as his. In 15 years of having the ARB on my old Defender only once have I hit a roo and the Defender mainly did country driving in daylight.

The weight of the bar needs to be included in the vehicle's payload (GVW-unladen weight). The L663 110 5 seater payload allowed is 815 kg. A full steel ARB-style bull bar can weigh over 80kg. The new Defender protection bar weighs 65kg. So there is a 15kg advantage in carrying capacity. That's 15 litres of water or nearly 20 litres of fuel. So it's a trade-off.

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Horses for courses [thumbsupbig]

Seriously though IF you don't need a bar then don't fit one But IF you do decide to fit a bar then go for the strongest one you can get as you only have to hit 1 roo and that bar will pay for itself , Hit a roo or anything that size in a flimsy bar then you may as well not have bothered fitting it because it Won't protect the car much at all[thumbsupbig]

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Originally Posted by trout1105

Horses for courses [thumbsupbig]
...a flimsy bar then you may as well not have bothered fitting it because it Won't protect the car much at all[thumbsupbig]

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That this bar is flimsy seems to be the basis of your argument.

I beg to differ for the benefit of L663 owners who are considering this bar.

I have one fitted to my new Defender and it is 65kg of steel so far from flimsy! I also have an ARB on my old Defender to compare it with. So I think I'm able to speak with some authority. The full frontal protection is substantial so the radiator is well protected. You could argue that the low-down side protection is not well covered. But overall it will be significantly better than no bar if skippy gets in the way.[tonguewink]

I was speaking with JLR re their bar, they said it took a long time for them to get compliance here, especially with the monocoque design and the multitude of airbags and other safety systems on the vehicle. The rep is was speaking to seemed to agree that the lower areas arent as well protected, however having one is better than none.

(I had an ARB on my D4, never hit anything substantial in the 9y I owned it)

Enquiring about the cost, the LR rep said around 6k including fitment and LCT if you add it into the build.

I'm still searching, and happy to wait for a suitable ADR compliant (and insurance company) aftermarket design, or will fit a LR bar later and pay no LCT on it.

I agree on one thing, better to have one than none, but 6k for steel tube is stretching the budget a bit too far atm. Just need to be watchful I guess.

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Originally Posted by Eric SDV6SE

.....but 6k for steel tube is stretching the budget a bit too far atm. Just need to be watchful I guess.

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Shop around. One dealer wanted 30% more than another. Does Barbagallo have a monopoly in WA? To supply and fit this to the front end of this vehicle is not a simple bolt-on proposition. It's not just steel tubing. No one even the mighty ARB will have a cheap ADR-compliant solution otherwise we will have had it by now.

Don't be tempted to have it fitted before delivery. In NSW not only LCT but also stamp duty would have added a significant cost to me at the benefit of government revenue. Buy the Defender first and pay for the accessories once you own it.

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Originally Posted by one_iota

Shop around. One dealer wanted 30% more than another. Does Barbagallo have a monopoly in WA? To supply and fit this to the front end of this vehicle is not a simple bolt-on proposition. It's not just steel tubing. No one even the mighty ARB will have a cheap ADR-compliant solution otherwise we will have had it by now.

Don't be tempted to have it fitted before delivery. In NSW not only LCT but also stamp duty would have added a significant cost to me at the benefit of government revenue. Buy the Defender first and pay for the accessories once you own it.

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The Bunbury dealer is a separate business from Barbagallos, so might be worth checking prices there. They love swiping business off Perth too... [emoji16]

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Originally Posted by Eric SDV6SE

I was speaking with JLR re their bar, they said it took a long time for them to get compliance here, especially with the monocoque design and the multitude of airbags and other safety systems on the vehicle. The rep is was speaking to seemed to agree that the lower areas arent as well protected, however having one is better than none.

(I had an ARB on my D4, never hit anything substantial in the 9y I owned it)

Enquiring about the cost, the LR rep said around 6k including fitment and LCT if you add it into the build.

I'm still searching, and happy to wait for a suitable ADR compliant (and insurance company) aftermarket design, or will fit a LR bar later and pay no LCT on it.

I agree on one thing, better to have one than none, but 6k for steel tube is stretching the budget a bit too far atm. Just need to be watchful I guess.

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Lol. The dealers don’t know **** in my opinion. There is no difference to the LR bar to an ARB on an L300, latest Prado or whatever. It’s a process to follow. The Defender isn’t some magical unicorn never encountered. It’s not the first monocoque chassis to have an ADR compliant bar attached. Yes there’s a process to follow - their bar is nothing special.

Personally I think it’s rubbish but sadly it’s the best we can expect from a manufacturer and tbh I’m impressed they even bothered rather than leaving it to the aftermarket.

I’m however surprised that ARB or OL haven’t tried to take a hold here. I’m guessing the volumes aren’t high enough or Covid has impacted development, which wouldn’t surprise me, WRT the delay

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Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

Lol. The dealers don’t know **** in my opinion. There is no difference to the LR bar to an ARB on an L300, latest Prado or whatever. It’s a process to follow. The Defender isn’t some magical unicorn never encountered. It’s not the first monocoque chassis to have an ADR compliant bar attached. Yes there’s a process to follow - their bar is nothing special.

Personally I think it’s rubbish but sadly it’s the best we can expect from a manufacturer and tbh I’m impressed they even bothered rather than leaving it to the aftermarket.

I’m however surprised that ARB or OL haven’t tried to take a hold here. I’m guessing the volumes aren’t high enough or Covid has impacted development, which wouldn’t surprise me, WRT the delay

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It's a lot different to a Toyota, unit body with all those vulnerable components right in the impact zone I'm not surprised no one wants to engineer a bar for them.

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Originally Posted by loanrangie

It's a lot different to a Toyota, unit body with all those vulnerable components right in the impact zone I'm not surprised no one wants to engineer a bar for them.

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I guess you are referring to the two intercoolers that are located in front of the front wheels.

Some thoughts regarding those intercoolers.

Splitting an intercooler is not always the showstopper splitting a radiator is. The vehicle can often still travel in limp mode.

Any animal that only hits in that bottom corner not protected by the bar will either be relatively small or only hitting with a glancing blow. Either way I suspect in the majority of cases they would be deflected to the side and under the wheel.

If the animal is big enough to hit the bar, the tube will absorb most of the impact and also its angled design will deflect the animal to the side of the vehicle and reduce the impact on the bar.

Don’t forget there is already some fairly serious steelwork behind the plastic bumper. This bar is effectively just adding the top hoop.

Everything you fit to a vehicle is a compromise in some way and from what I have seen of this bar it actually looks like a pretty good design. It is not built like those silly chrome nudge bars and while its not the prettiest thing out there I would be happy to fit it to the front of my new Defender.

We all tend to get a bit blinkered in what we think things should look like without understanding the engineering that has gone into a design. None of us are vehicle engineers and sometimes we need to accept that the people who design these things might actually know a bit more about it than we do.

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Originally Posted by one_iota

I guess you are referring to the two intercoolers that are located in front of the front wheels.

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Which the L300 has as well,radiators for the water cooled intercooler set up.
If you look at a full bumper Bull bar for a 300,you will see the vents each side.

Defender,being a Monocoque design, is much more difficult to engineer a full bumper bull bar for,than traditional body on chassis design.
It is also a relatively low volume vehicle,and being a modern LR,very complicated.
So the investment in the R&D, to produce one, probably does not stack up as a viable business case.

Around $6K fitted is not that bad,a full bumper Bull Bar for a LC300,colour coded,fitted,will be up close to $5K,maybe even slightly more.
The one on our LC200 was just over $4K 2 years ago.

FWIW,the ARB bar on our D4,colour coded was less than $3K in 2014.Although i did know the guy at ARB at the time.And it was well worth the investment, saved us from a few show stoppers.

Weight wise,around 20KG is removed on a LC200,to fit a bar,so the net additional weight is very similar to the OEM bar on the Defender.

Agreed,the bar on the Defender is much better than nothing.
If a full bumper Bull Bar is needed,the defender is not for you,no good complaining about it,just move on.