Thread: Under Bonnet Lithium Batteries

Originally Posted by BradC

Nah, they're all the same. A fault in the BMS is different to a fault in the cells. You might get lucky with a BMS fault and it blows a MOSFET, but once a cell is going there's no stopping it.

Are the pouch cell lithiums mentioned for cranking the same? I've only heard of them in ev applications. I thought all the LIFEP04 batteries were quite different. Pouch cells AFAIK are not LIFPO4

A123 Systems cells use what they describe as UltraPhosphate Lithium Ion. I believe still LiFePO4 but uses a patented process to manipulate the particle structure.

Invicta say they use the A123 pouch cells, whilst SSB describe them just as LiFePO4 prismatic cells (which could be pouch or cylindrical), but some vendors state they are pouch cells.

One note from my first post. The new Optima OrangeTop lithium whilst it is a cranking battery is not for under-bonnet use.

I had a lithium cranking battery in my 2003 RR TD6. Bought I think in 2019. Was made by iTech(WA).
Never had any problems with it. Car was written off in July this year (other driver smashed into the front R/H side- took out R/headlight,destroyed suspension and R fender ). Battery was still going strong.
Dont know whether they still make that battery or not.
cheers DG

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Are the pouch cell lithiums mentioned for cranking the same? I've only heard of them in ev applications. I thought all the LIFEP04 batteries were quite different. Pouch cells AFAIK are not LIFPO4

Yes. The major difference is when they thermally runaway they don't burst directly into flames, they just vent hydrogen. Provided there's no ignition source they don't burn. Of course if there is an ignition source then all bets are off, and it's not particularly difficult to ignite hydrogen.

Originally Posted by BradC

Yes. The major difference is when they thermally runaway they don't burst directly into flames, they just vent hydrogen. Provided there's no ignition source they don't burn. Of course if there is an ignition source then all bets are off, and it's not particularly difficult to ignite hydrogen.

My dad was a chemistry lecturer. For some reason he taught me how to make hydrogen balloons. Next thing tie a string on and douse it in metho. Stuff we did. Man they used to go with a bang.

Hi,
Especially if you pre-load the balloon with a little Oxy from the welding bottles. Or at least, so I am told.
Cheers

Well after a stressful month the insurance has been sorted and we can move on.
The Oka has been written off and will turn up at a Pickles auction later in the year.
The offending battery which has been confirmed as the sole reason for the fire by a forensic fire investigator as it shorted internally was an SSB LS55T starting battery, bought online early in november and fitted to the Oka for just over a week and one five hundred kilometre trip.
At the time of the fire it was completley isolated from the truck as I always do when camped to stop parasitic losses and prevent someone trying to start it as well. It had been isolated for two days and nights before it decided to fire up in the afternoon.
We were camped in my sons front yard with the bullbar under the eaves of his house so were very lucky that a neighbour heard the smoke alarm screaming and looked outside to see what was going on and quickly shoved a hose in through the flyscreen door to put the interior out and prevented the whole thing going up and taking the house with it.
The firies turned up and established that the battery was the problem as it kept arcing up despite copious amounts of water.
We were at the beach for the day and turned up as the battery went up again. I showed the firies how to slide the battery carriers out (Oka has a slideout carrier under the body behind the front wheels on each side for main and auxilary batteries) and between us we managed to get the battery into a Hazmat drum full of water and retardent where it still bubbled for a couple of hours afterwards.
This is the second lithium vehicle battery that I've had go up, the first was a few years ago on a mates farm where a battery in a quaddie fired up while I was riding it so I rode it into the dam to put it out.
I fitted the above battery as there are several Oka owners and other light truck owners that I know have been using them for 4 or 5 years with great success.
Personally I won't ever be installing another one and in fact won't ever have any drop in lithium battery which has an internal BMS in side the case and the volatile innards in the same place. It was suspected by the investigator that the BMS has overheated/shorted and started the fire, once it got going there was no stopping it, if we had been anywhere where there wasn't a hose handy with unlimited water supply like a bush camp we would have lost the lot.
The same would have been the case if it had been at home in the shed, by the time we would have noticed the truck, shed and contents on fire it would have been unstoppable.
Looking at what is left of the battery they appear to be pouch cells, certainly aren't cylindrical!

I'm so sorry to be reading this. I always have felt like a luddite running a stupidly heavy 150ah 2nd battery in the 4WD, and have often pondered if I should make the change.

I think I'll stick with the AGM battery and being a luddite - I'd be as devastated as you are if I lost my pride and joy too.