DieselGas - how's it going?????

**mikecmb** · 4th February 2008, 04:53 PM

A while back I read some comments from members who had fitted lpg enhancement to there td5's. A 20/30 % power increase was claimed with tyres chirping up the driveway etc.

That was a some months ago and I wonder how its all holding together. has your engine blown up ? is it running better than ever? is it saving you money at the bowser?

Has anyone else fitted the system since ? I would love to hear any comments.

I have talked to a RAC recomended gas fitter in Perth who told me to keep away from it and that he wont do it.

MIKE

**mikecmb** · 4th February 2008, 08:02 PM

Just bumping this up as I realy want to find out some info before i go ahead and do it.

Mike

**Disco_owner** · 4th February 2008, 08:47 PM

Mike;

There has been many discussions on Diesel gas on these Forums, if you do a Search on Diesel-Gas you'll probably find many Threads / reponses. I don't have Diesel-Gas installed on my 300tdi purely because I wish not to place extra Load and demand on my engine.but some others may tell you otherwise .

but I found this interesting link on one of the Threads

Engine & fuel engineering - Propane enrichment for diesels

you should read it.

**DeeJay** · 4th February 2008, 10:53 PM

What we need is a long term user review. I read that disco-owner thread and its mostly 6-7 years old now. Has'nt this concept advanced a long way since?
My first hand experience has only been with 30- 40.000 klm owners. Surely diesel engines can take 20-30% extra load. Is'nt that what chipping does? Whats the diff? I cant agree with the conclusions that fumigating causes premature wear- unless chipping does too.
David

**Tank** · 5th February 2008, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by DeeJay

What we need is a long term user review. I read that disco-owner thread and its mostly 6-7 years old now. Has'nt this concept advanced a long way since?
My first hand experience has only been with 30- 40.000 klm owners. Surely diesel engines can take 20-30% extra load. Is'nt that what chipping does? Whats the diff? I cant agree with the conclusions that fumigating causes premature wear- unless chipping does too.
David

The main purpose of the LPG is to promote a total burn of the diesel fuel, which without the LPG doesn't happen, incomplete combustion creates soot (carbon) which causes wear and makes your oil so black. Diesel engines with LPG run very clean, with little or no soot, oil stays cleaner, longer, oil change periods are extended, more power produced, less pollution, less wear. So engines run cleaner and longer and give more power and torque, if I had a diesel it would be on LPG in a flash, Regards Frank.

**JDNSW** · 5th February 2008, 06:02 AM

Adding gas to diesels can be used purely to improve combustion, giving a modest increase in power and economy, less pollution, and cleaner running and hence improved engine life, as Tank says - OR it can be used, together with the excess air always present in a diesel to give in addition a substantial, even very substantial, increase in power by adding more gas, resulting in higher operating temperatures and increased stress on everything, with a likliehood of shorter engine life or even catastrophic failure. It is often difficult to know which route is being followed for any particular installation - it may change with throttle opening, and may change from one to the other with the same installation just by adjustment (or remapping). Hence history of use must be treated with caution (both the good and the bad) - there is no simple answer.

John

**Dougal** · 5th February 2008, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by DeeJay

Surely diesel engines can take 20-30% extra load. Is'nt that what chipping does? Whats the diff?

The diff is how they ignite. The conditions present in a turbo diesel prior to diesel injection are sufficient to preignite any LPG present.
Preignition returns a lot of power but is very hard on everything in the cylinder.

I too am very interested in long term results.

**Redback** · 5th February 2008, 07:42 AM

If you contact KLR Diesel Gas Australia they will give the contact details of TD5 owners that have had it done.

Baz.

**p38arover** · 5th February 2008, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dougal

The diff is how they ignite. The conditions present in a turbo diesel prior to diesel injection are sufficient to preignite any LPG present.
Preignition returns a lot of power but is very hard on everything in the cylinder.

What are those conditions? Not just pressure as LPG is under much higher pressure in a tank.

Wouldn't preignition be audible? It is in a petrol engine.

**JDNSW** · 5th February 2008, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by p38arover

What are those conditions? Not just pressure as LPG is under much higher pressure in a tank.

Wouldn't preignition be audible? It is in a petrol engine.

Pressure in an LPG tank is quite low compared to compression pressures in a diesel - like about one tenth as much (CNG is another matter!), as the Liquefied Petroleum Gas is stored in liquid form.

I don't know what the ignition temperature/pressure is for LPG, but I would point out that the compression ratios for detonation quoted for LPG are for mixtures that are at or at least somewhere near stoichiometric mixtures. In dieselgas this is not the case, and particularly at the low concentrations used to improve combustion efficiency, I suspect that detonation will not proceed at any temperature or pressure reached before injection (a good comparison is to note that an LPG/air mixture at room temperature and pressure is explosive and can be ignited only for a range of mixtures - too little and it will only burn at the igniting flame but will not propagate. The same applies in the combustion chamber, although the mixture required to propagate will be different). When I toured the power station in Roma in the mid sixties, the engines were running on dieselgas, using very little crude oil as diesel to provide ignition, with almost all the fuel being raw natural gas, which contained LPG.

I strongly suspect that the problems with dieselgas almost entirely result from its use to provide more power, with the resulting increases in temperatures and stresses.

John

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