Motorcycle/Trail Bike/Scooter Rider Safety Issues

**CapableCate** · 18th July 2013, 05:29 AM

(Continued from Mr Whippy's original thread “Irate police hunt 'missile moron' motorbike rider” started in General Discussion 18th of June, 2013) Previous posts relevant to the response appear first.

Posted by CapableCate in reply to Disco Muppet . . . 25th of June, 2013
. . .VicPol Media Release . . . MOTORCYCLIST CHARGED IN BENALLA . . . SUNDAY, 23 JUNE 2013 08:40*
A man has been charged after being detected speeding on a motorcycle near Benalla last Sunday.
A member from the Benalla Highway Patrol was performing traffic duties on the Hume Freeway on 16 June when he detected a motorcyclist travelling over the 110km/h speed limit.
When the leading senior constable attempted to intercept the rider, the rider allegedly reached speeds of around 273km/h.
Due to safety concerns police ceased following the motorcyclist.
Around 2pm yesterday police from the Benalla Highway Patrol, Benalla Crime Investigation Unit and local uniform members executed a search warrant at an address in Swanpool.
A 37-year-old Swanpool man was arrested and later charged with conduct endangering life, conduct endangering person, evade police, drive/ride in a manner dangerous, drive/ride at speed dangerous, exceed speed, possess cannabis and use cannabis.
He has been bailed to appear at Benalla Magistrate’s Court on 27 August, 2013. Natalie Webster Media Officer VP28027/2013
. . .
So far, I agree with majority of views expressed, and would like to add that it is highly unlikely the 'alleged' offender was avoiding the time in motion camera's on the Hume, as they finish/start at Broadford North/South bound. Given he was arrested at Swanpool, one would have to assume, if they've got the right rider, that he's a local to Benalla, in which case, he should have had more sense, as Traffic Op's there have always been dedicated; anyone remember 1080, and 540, his off-sider who was 1/2 as bad? Oh, and 1079, who was nearly as bad!

I was born in NE Victoria, and moved back 6 years ago after 12 years in Southern Tasmania, and previous couple of decades from South Coast NSW to FNQ. Have just returned from a few weeks in Tas, and drove a lot of it in my Disco tdi. Something I always notice about driving there, as opposed to my usual track the 'Doom' (Hume), is all drivers, from trucks (mainly semi's, not B doubles), to small cars & motorbikes, seem to have more respect for each other on the roads, are largely more considerate, polite, less hurried, and not distracted by numerous in-cab' toys, (like mobiles with Facebook, coz you can't possibly be away from it for a minute!), GPS, watching your speed to 2-3km etc. Interestingly, the majority of highways in Tasmania enjoy 110km limits where Victoria is 100km limits, and asides from Qld, tragically, has an incredible number of road kill of their native animals. TasPol, incidentally, despite TasGov being the most economically challenged in Australia, seem to exercise common sense in traffic management. Despite this, statistics show, that Tasmania still enjoys the lowest road toll per capita in Australia. Also, I would never bag VicPol; it's VicGov who's made the revenue raising ridiculous, in recent years.

I may be a bit 'last Century', but having been raised on a farm, and learnt to drive tractors, old Series 1 & 2 Land Rovers, Ford Prefect, (inclu double clutching non synchro gearboxes), Motorbike, Classic Range Rover, Defender & now Disco tdi, I would class myself as a better than average competent driver of 40+ years, and firstly believe Learner Drivers' should still have to learn in a manual vehicle; secondly, attend mandatory Defensive Driving/Riding Course, and thirdly, until over the Insurance deemed dangerous age group ie 25, not be permitted to use any items of distraction whilst driving, enforced as strictly as the '00' blood alcohol level for 'L' & 'P' plate drivers/riders. I'm sure most of us would agree we got away with some stupid stuff when we were younger, less experienced, and not subject to as strict penalties. We thought we were invincible, and stuff always happened to someone else; of course, we weren't, we were just plain lucky.

As a current lobbyist for rider safety in Victoria; I have no time for riders who ride with blatant disregard for their own lives, let alone those of others on a public road, especially when they can do so safely, in the controlled environments of the likes of tracks at Winton, Broadford, Phillip Island, or any of the drag strips in Victoria. However, like others, I understand the position he found himself in, when in actual fact he may not have originally been exceeding the 110km speed limit in a dangerous manner, when first clocked. Regardless, due to his subsequent behaviour, this rider has further jeopardised our cause, as if it's not already an uphill battle to achieve equitable, sensible, responsible legislation that recognises the vulnerability of motorbike riders, including better education for other vehicle drivers' on sharing roads with riders. Trucks also suffer the frustration of other drivers' lack of understanding of sharing the roads with heavy vehicles.

So in summary, Disco Muppet has hit the nail on the head; we need better education, a massive change in attitude to sharing our roads with different users', (some more vulnerable than others), an injection of some good old fashioned courtesy, and common sense - rarely found in this Century of Nanny & butt covering mentality!

Sorry this is so long, and I hope the fonts are the right size, as I've had problems with them in previous posts. They look huge on my computer, but apparently are microscopic at times. Apologies in advance if too small, or too big!

Cate
Independent Riders Group (IRG)

1996 Land Rover Discovery tdi - The Duck
1981 Classic 2 door manual Range Rover - Strangey

Posted by PeterM in reply to CapableCate . . . 25th of June, 2013
Cate, could you please invite Damien to do something really useful for riders and never show his face in public again?

Posted by CapableCate in reply to PeterM . . . 26th of June, 2013
Peter, I find your comment not only totally inappropriate, but puerile, insulting and disrespectful. You are of course, entitled to your opinion, however, have you, as a rider, for however many years that may be, ever showed any support for, or given of your time to constructively contributing to real change for rider safety in this State?
The reason the scooter riders get more done, as do the cyclists, with changes to legislation affecting their safety, is because they are united, and irrespective of personality differences, they rise above them to achieve a common goal for all.
The main reason why motorbike riders continue to be disrespected by many other road users, and authorities, is because they lack unity. How can we ever gain respect, or validity as a major group of vulnerable road users, when we seem unable to rise above petty differences of opinions, and inflated ego's? Unfortunately, you are not alone in your self righteousness, made obvious in your posts with Treads.
Regardless of whether Damien is liked or not, he has literally devoted his life to fighting for riders rights, in his own time, and with his own money. He has made a significant difference on a political/legislative level, and continues to do so. He 'walks the walk', and remains focused on the end goal, which is to make sure that ridiculous restrictions aren't placed on our liberties as riders. It seems his tireless commitment to this cause hasn't gone unnoticed, otherwise why would he have OAM after his name?
You're not the first rider to dislike him, and won't be the last, but in most cases I'm aware of, not one of those riders has ever done a thing to contribute constructively to rider safety, they just like making a lot of negative, destructive noise. Ironically, the same noisy empty vessels will be the first to bitch and moan if tighter, more costly laws are passed. Is it any wonder we fight an up hill battle?
I also respect the work of ALL our emergency service agencies, which does include VicPol, and find your comments distasteful, disrespectful, and out of line. In fact, I am surprised you haven't been pulled up by a Moderator yet.
Cate
NB If there are any other members who ride motorbikes, trail bikes, or scooters, who are seriously interested in making a difference to our lives as riders, please feel free to contact me independentridersgroup@iinet.net.au

Posted by PeterM in reply to CapableCate . . . 27th of June, 2013
This is off topic now so I'll keep it brief.
Yes, I have been involved in making positive changes with respect to riding in Vic.
Damien has done good work in the past but that has been marred by controversy, actual brawling in MRA meetings etc. He is a divisive influence and does not work within the bigger game plan. The IRG approach and tactics are for another era, look at how NSW has achieved recent victories with respect to CTP legislation. Making something of non-issues such as the idiotic anti-fluro protest ride, attended by a very small number of people, some of who were actually wearing fluro, is not a constructive contribution.
He ought to either get behind those leading the push or retire from the game. . . .

**CapableCate** · 18th July 2013, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by CapableCate

Posted by PeterM in reply to CapableCate . . . 27th of June, 2013
This is off topic now so I'll keep it brief.
Yes, I have been involved in making positive changes with respect to riding in Vic.
Damien has done good work in the past but that has been marred by controversy, actual brawling in MRA meetings etc. He is a divisive influence and does not work within the bigger game plan. The IRG approach and tactics are for another era, look at how NSW has achieved recent victories with respect to CTP legislation. Making something of non-issues such as the idiotic anti-fluro protest ride, attended by a very small number of people, some of who were actually wearing fluro, is not a constructive contribution.
He ought to either get behind those leading the push or retire from the game. . . .

Yes, this is now off topic, and why I have started a new thread, as this topic is worthy of clarification for any other Members who ride, and are likely to be affected by changes to Legislation in the State of Victoria. NB Many rider issues are relevant all over Australia, so please don't dismiss this as 'Statecentric'; your State/Territory may have dealt with, or be dealing with, the same or similar. If not, be prepared!

Firstly Peter, I'm sure we would all be interested in knowing what you have been involved in, that has resulted in positive changes with respect to riding in Victoria.

Secondly, without reducing this to a personal slanging match witnessed on the thread this discussion arose from, I suspect you have not kept abreast of any of Damiens work with IRG in recent times; instead continuing, like some others, to dwell on negative aspects of his departure from MRA.

To focus on that for a moment, and to clarify some facts. The final meeting called to remove Damien from the MRA, was done so by illegally changing and manipulating the Constitution, then stacking the Meeting. The Member who physically attacked Damien at the end of that Meeting, subsequently pleaded guilty in Court, rightly so, as witnessed by other Members present. That Meeting was also filmed, and the footage from it is available if anyone would like to view it, and form their own opinion.

For the benefit of others, here is a brief history of the MRA.
In 1977 Damien was approached by senior office bearing members of the Hells Angels MC to form a riders' rights group, so all motorcycle riders could be fairly heard and represented, without the stigma attached to 1% Clubs, and in 1978 the Motorcycle Riders' Association (MRA) was formed. It grew rapidly, replacing a declining Federation of Australian Motorcyclists. Over the next 30 years, significant changes were achieved with the support of many Riders who, over time, had formed valuable regional representative groups within the MRA. This Unity naturally involved social aspects, and a lot of fund raising for campaigns arose from organised events for Members; also often involving raising the profile of Motorcycle Riding; the Annual Toy Run a perfect example of this.
In 2007, it had become obvious that the MRA were no longer as focused on riders' rights, as originally established to represent 30 years prior, instead being more a social group. As riders still needed a voice, and political representation, Damien set up the Independent Riders' Group (IRG) as an informal think tank, to ensure riders be kept informed of safety and right to ride issues; the original reason why MRA was established. Also, and rightfully so, he was recognised with MRA Honourary Life Membership.

Over the past 12 months in particular, the IRG has been recognised in Parliament as a peak body representing motorcyclists in Victoria, and has made its presence known though the Victorian Parliamentary Inquiry into Motorcycle Safety (PIMS).
The Victorian Parliament's Road Safety Committee is made up of five MPs. Chairman Murray Thompson MLA (Lib) with Bill Tilley MLA (Lib), Jude Perera MLA (ALP), Telmo Languille MLA (ALP) and Andrew Elsbury MLC (Lib). The RSC spent over a year talking to riders, industry and government departments, and studying their input. IRG was one of many legitimate stakeholders representing motorcycle riders' in Victoria; all included in the consultation process which resulted in the 64 PIMS recommendations.

To read the whole of Government response to the 64 recommendations from the Parliament of Victoria Road Safety Committee inquiry into motorcycle safety, tabled 11th of June 2013. http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/ima...e_11062013.pdf

On the 15th of April, 2013, Steve Bardsley of VSRA prepared a joint submission to oppose the Melbourne Road Safety Plan, on the grounds of insufficient consultation with stakeholders representing Powered Two Wheeler (PTW) rider advocacy groups.
On the 16th of April, Steve Bardsley of Victorian Scooter Riders Association (VSRA), Rob Salvatore of Victorian Motorcycle Council (VMC), and Damien Codognotto of Independent Riders Group (IRG), who collectively represent in excess of over 10,000 Victorian Motorcycle and Scooter riders, requested postponement of the vote endorsing the Melbourne Road Safety Plan, at the meeting of the Future Melbourne Committee at Melbourne City Council, due to concerns that issues they had raised during earlier consultation had not been adequately addressed. The Committee subsequently determined that consideration of the Plan be deferred until July 2013 to allow further consultation regarding motorcycle safety and amenity issues.
A meeting was held with the representatives of the motorcycle groups on 22 May 2013 to discuss the written submissions. The issues raised in the submissions have been addressed or incorporated in the Plan (changes are coloured red in Attachment 2) Pages 39, 42, 47, 54, 57, 59, & 61. Submissions from PTW rider advocacy groups appear from page 94 – 124. http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/Abou...02013-2017.pdf
The final amended 5 year Road Safety Plan, which includes a lot on motorcycles & scooters, was put to the vote, and passed, at the Future Melbourne Committee meeting at Melbourne City Council on Tuesday, 2nd of July, 2013.

Along with the two very important documents below, this makes 4 major documents in 1 year which are positive about motorcycles & scooters.

Federal. Anthony Albanese's "State of Australian Cities 2012" in particular pages 81-83
The Hon Anthony Albanese MP, Minister for Infrastructure and Transport
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/inf...ULL_WEB_FA.pdf

Tourism Victoria Motorcycle Tourism Strategy 2013-16.
http://www.tourism.vic.gov.au/images...m-Strategy.pdf

To conclude the second point, the above demonstrates the opposite to your claim that Damien “ . . .does not work within the bigger game plan.”; and “He ought to either get behind those leading the push or retire from the game. . . . “

As to your reference “He is a divisive influence . . . “; unsure what you're alluding to, unless referring again to those who don't like him from the past. Interestingly, you claim “The IRG approach and tactics are for another era, . . . “; the 'anti Damien' campaign seems firmly locked in the past.

In reference to “ . . . look at how NSW has achieved recent victories with respect to CTP legislation.”; didn't 8000 bikes at Parliament House in Melbourne in 1986, among other things, win Victorian riders the right to keep CTP insurance premiums down?

Re: “Making something of non-issues such as the idiotic anti-fluro protest ride, attended by a very small number of people, some of who were actually wearing fluro, is not a constructive contribution.” Assume you are referring to the Motorcycle & Scooter Riders Protest Rally in A'beckett Street, Melbourne on Monday, October 29, 2012, the day after Phillip Island Moto GP.
Firstly, that protest run grew out of a facebook page. Riders were angry at a range of proposals and wanted a public say. As the move to hold a protest rally gained momentum, a stage and PA were required and the IRG took that on.
Secondly, the aim was to say 'no' to a range of discriminatory proposals including: wire rope barriers, the TAC anti-bike tax, consorting laws, front number plates/stickers/tags, a high visibility vest law (*mandatory* day glo vests), and compulsory protective boots, pants, jackets & gloves picked for us by a committee of bureaucrats. Note *mandatory*; if it is a riders' own preference to wear one, fine.
Thirdly, it was well-attended, for a weekday, with about 400 bikes parked in and near A'beckett Street. The speakers were Steve Bardsley (Victorian Scooter Riders Association); Heather Ellis (Member of the Motorcycle Advisory Group at VicRoads); Luke Donnellan MP (Victorian Shadow Minister for Roads, Road Safety & the Transport Accident Commission); and John Voyage (Maurice Blackburn Lawyers) promoting the SMIDSY (Sorry mate, I didn't see you; is an admission of negligence or incompetence or both) campaign.

Finally, riders are largely, by nature, individuals, and resent unnecessary 'red tape' in life. To quote *Greg Hirst “Most Australians are ignorant of the passion they share with hundreds of thousands of other motorcycling Aussies. This ignorance shows itself in insults and negative stereotyping.” Few would argue against sensible safety initiatives, or education of other road users, to promote understanding of sharing roads with all vulnerable road users, including cyclists and pedestrians. Heavy vehicle users would also benefit from this, as many drivers fail to recognise their limitations with regard to manoeuvrability due to their length and weight. To refer to my original response in agreement with Disco Muppet in previous thread, we also need a massive change in attitude, some good old fashioned courtesy, and common sense.
*Greg is known for his national motorcycle advocacy and media work promoting the motorcycle culture through his 'Ride Radio' program on Alive 90.5 website around Australia, and his books “My Motorcycling Life” Pts 1 & 2.

It is not important which representative body riders choose to back; what is important, is that we do. Without a show of unity, we will be lumbered with tedious, impractical, costly, restrictive laws, and I don't know any riders who want that. Our passion is already a costly pursuit without making it prohibitive.

If there are any other members who ride motorcycles, trail bikes, or scooters, who are seriously interested in making a difference to our lives as riders, please feel free to contact me independentridersgroup@iinet.net.au and/or join an appropriate Club/Group (see below) NB For other States/Territorys, specific brands of motorcycles, or your local club/group, please use your favourite search engine.

Representing Victorian Clubs/Groups
Victorian Motorcycle Council (VMC) represents all types of on-road and off-road riders via delegates or representatives from various groups, clubs and associations. Victorian Motorcycle Council - About Us
Victorian Scooter Riders Association (VSRA) represents all Victorian based scooter clubs or groups. VSRA currently represents the following scooter clubs: Vespa Club of Melbourne Vespa Club of Melbourne ; Melbourne Crusaders Scooter Club Melbourne Crusaders ; The Melbourne Scooter Connection MelbourneSC : The Melbourne Scooter Connection ; Lambretta Club of Australia inc The Lambretta Club of Australia

Australian Riders' Division (ARD) is Motorcycling Australia's non-competition division that has been put together to provide a resource for non-competition Australian riders. The primary purpose of the ARD is to promote motorcycling in all its forms. Affiliation is available to non‐competition (leisure) motorcycle clubs as well as non‐commercial (charitable) organisations which conduct motorcycle-based events. Australian Riders' Division

Representing Individual Riders
Independent Riders' Group (IRG) represents individual riders who may prefer not to be a member of an organised club or group, riders who belong to a club or group that may or may not already be affiliated with VMC or VSRA, riders of all types of Motorcycles, Trail Bikes, Scooters, and Pillions. Members participate in identifying issues impacting rider safety, and injustice in, and the implementation of, legislation impacting riders'. It's free; only need name, post code & email address to register.
https://www.facebook.com/IndependentRidersGroup

Active Advocates for Riders
Damien Codognotto has been the one consistent force in Australian motorcycle politics since 1977. Please use his material - put it on websites & facebook, pin on notice boards, email to friends, use in magazines & newsletters, and raise at club meetings. Get the word out there.
Damien Codognotto OAM: Independent Riders' Group launched by Damien Codognotto OAM
Heather Ellis is an Australian writer, journalist and motorcyclist with more than 30 years riding experience who rode her Yamaha TT600 enduro motorcycle through Africa, Europe, Central Asia and into China & Vietnam from 1993 to 1997. She is a member of the Victorian Government's Motorcycle Advisory Group (MAG), and is keen to see recreational registration available to more riders.
Heather Ellis | Australian woman motorcycle traveller and writer | Africa and Central Asia on a Yamaha TT600

If you ride a Trail Bike, Australian Motorcycle Trail Riders Association, (AMTRA) is based in Victoria; is a non-competitive club formed to cater specially for the Trail rider, and holds rides throughout Victoria. Members organise rides in areas they know or want to explore. AMTRA also own a property south of Myrtleford in northern Victoria which is free for members to use as base to explore the Alpine areas. As they ride on gazetted roads all members must have a valid licence or Learners Permit and a registered bike. http://www.amtra.com.au/forum/home2/

Specific Interest Clubs/Groups
Australian division of the Women's International Motorcycle Association (WIMA Victoria) Womens International Motorcycle Association
BMW Motorcycle Club of Victoria
About the Club
Classic Motor Cycle Club of Victoria Inc. (CMCCV) link to various classic brand clubs Motorcycle Clubs
Ducati Owners Club of Victoria (DOCV)
https://www.docv.org/index.php/about-the-docv
Harley Owners Group® (H.O.G)
Join a Chapter | Harley-Davidson Australia/New Zealand
Motorcycle Riders Association Of Victoria – MRA(Vic) MRAVic Motorcycle Riders Association Victoria - Contact Us
Ulysses Club Inc. A social club for motorcyclists over the age of 40 Ulysses Club Inc. | Branches

Club/Group Listings
Motorcycle / Motorbike Clubs in Melbourne & Victoria (VIC), Australia.
Motorbike Clubs & Associations - BikePoint Australia

Cate
Independent Riders Group (IRG)

1996 Land Rover Discovery tdi - The Duck

1981 Classic 2 door manual Range Rover - Strangey

**vnx205** · 18th July 2013, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by CapableCate

I'm sure most of us would agree we got away with some stupid stuff when we were younger, less experienced, and not subject to as strict penalties. We thought we were invincible, and stuff always happened to someone else; of course, we weren't, we were just plain lucky.

We only hear from those who got away with stupid stuff when they were younger. Those who didn't get away with it are not around to tell their story.

**mudmouse** · 18th July 2013, 07:14 AM

There is already a division between 'riders' and 'drivers', why develop the adversarial relationship by forming councils and groups??

Riders are by nature risk takers, and so will and do break the road rules because they can, given the size of their vehicle (lane splitting, passing on the nearside, overtaking too closely, speeding etc) because they can, and they know being detected and stopped by the police is difficult. Don't worry I ride too.

This may be seen as a gross generalisation, but you only have to see one or two bad things to marginalise a group - it happens everywhere.

We can't have two rules to be applied on one road - there are some exemptions, but it doesn't work.

No one is going to fund a huge overhaul of training and education for licence applicants, and if it's not applied to all existing licence holders, then it will not have any real positive affect.

Matt.

**CapableCate** · 18th July 2013, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by mudmouse

There is already a division between 'riders' and 'drivers', why develop the adversarial relationship by forming councils and groups??

Precisely, and why we need representation.

Riders are by nature risk takers, and so will and do break the road rules because they can, given the size of their vehicle (lane splitting, passing on the nearside, overtaking too closely, speeding etc) because they can, and they know being detected and stopped by the police is difficult. Don't worry I ride too.

This may be seen as a gross generalisation, but you only have to see one or two bad things to marginalise a group - it happens everywhere.

True, it's that 'one bad apple in the barrel' thing again.

We can't have two rules to be applied on one road - there are some exemptions, but it doesn't work.

No one is going to fund a huge overhaul of training and education for licence applicants, and if it's not applied to all existing licence holders, then it will not have any real positive affect.

Totally agree. Best we can hope for is better education for all licence holders, and an injection of courtesy.

Matt.

Cate

**PeterM** · 18th July 2013, 11:37 AM

Good God Cate. The drivel, seriously.

Damien is the IRG, it is his little baby. Without him it will die.

There were not 400 at the post MotoGP rally. I have photos of the attendance if you like. That Facebook group that was sponsoring that was an IRG group or at least run by IRG members, ergo IRG was responsible. I particularly liked the shrieking at anyone who offered a differing viewpoint and booting from the group.

How'd the IRG organised protest ride up to the teeming metropolis of Seymour go? Was the booking for tables at the pub sufficient to cater for the hoards?

DC's life membership of the MRA was revoked. I note that you excluded the legal actions that Damien has had taken out against him as well.

At the parliamentary inquiry into the TAC, DC sat in the cheap seats with the rest of the onlookers. The VMC and MA were the ones taking the TAC to task.

Regarding the CTP issue, 1986 is a long time away from 2013. Thank you for reinforcing the fact that the IRG tactics are for a bygone era.

DC put in submissions to the PTW plan just like any other individual could, he just signs his off with 'OAM' and 'IRG'.

Motorcyclists are individuals and are by nature, mostly free from the herd mentality that groups many other people together. They do not like someone claiming to represent them when they have no authority to do so.

The more disparate the number of groups out there, the greater the possibilities for division. Divide and conquer, its a well known term and government are experts at it.

Every other group is getting behind the VMC to provide the single point of contact to government, Damien's pride prevents him from falling into line and actually demonstrating unity.

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