Steel Structural Insulated Panels (SIPs) - anyone worked with them?

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

...using Bondor SolarSpan ... ...This is what I think you are planning on using?

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Yes, sounds like a very similar product to what I have been looking at. I looked up SolarSpan and it appears an Australian product and does not appear on the Bondor NZ website. Unfortunate. I will have to ask them here if it is a product they do in NZ. I have seen a product made by MetalCraft here in Auckland that sounds like the same thing.

How did you find working with it in terms of tools? Did the panels come to your site needing any work for fitting or were they ready to go up? Most manufacturers here when I ask, indicate that they can cut to prescribed lengths but it is straight cuts only no angles so I would need to cut roof line angles and doors and windows and then seal and flash off as required. I have heard many options for cutting. I will be cutting off-site and transporting to site ready to go. No electricity or workshop on site yet.

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

For a roof system there is pretty well established details for barges / fascia and guttering.
I can only assume brainiacs have worked out similar details when making an outside corner / soffit etc detail.

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Yep, I have been looking closely at some of the detailed drawings from both the manufacturers here. Over here anything that varies from the norm as indicated in the NZ Building Code has to be assessed by engineers as meeting the building code and it then given the status of "Acceptable Solution" followed by the clause of the code it is a solution to. Many of the panel manufacturers now are producing documents and specifications that depict acceptable solutions. I am very slowly understanding what needs to be done on my cabin plans.

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

What size cabin are you looking to throw up

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At this stage I am looking at a single unit of 6m x 3.6m. I will likely get designs drawn and apply for consent for a second unit to bolt to the first at a future date.

Hi mate
As you mentioned panels delivered cut to length
The only cutting I had to do on the Pavillion was removing the roof sheet overlap of the first sheet so essentially a 4m long 60mm wide strip of roof sheet cutoff

For that cut I used nibblers so as not to burn up the sheet using a cut disc .

Essentially cuts are the same as any Tin roofing work and just hack out the polystyrene as needed.


My gut says for a 6x4 cabin the SIP could make an excellent simple roof and either skillion span the 4 or 6m dimension or you could make up a nice gable with an exposed timber beam on centre supported by gable walls.

The panels are great for their spanning and insulation ability - you can easily cut in down lights
BUT for a walking system my thoughts would turn towards something that is
A/ easier to fit out internally
B/ not steel sheeting internal - for a roof ceiling the smooth steel in surfmist white is pretty innocuous - but as a wall finish it is pretty industrial!!!

Will the canon be slab on ground or on piers?

What is your preferred flooring ?

S

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

[snip] For that cut I used nibblers so as not to burn up the sheet using a cut disc .

[snip]

My gut says for a 6x4 cabin the SIP could make an excellent simple roof and either skillion span the 4 or 6m dimension or you could make up a nice gable with an exposed timber beam on centre supported by gable walls.

[snip]

Will the canon be slab on ground or on piers?
What is your preferred flooring ?

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Thanks for the replies. I had read somewhere by a manufacturer not to use abrasive discs as the sparks and heat causes a cavity under the sheet being cut. Makes sense. I have read of a steel cutting blade that goes on a circular saw and the depth of cut is set to only cut the steel skin. A cut is made on both sides where you require and then they used an electric hot-knife to cut and seal the polystyrene between the cut skins. Seems a long way of doing it. I am hoping there is a quicker way. Reciprocating saw is a thought. Any ideas? Want to minimise polystyrene blowing around in the wind.

Skillion roof of about 5 degrees and spanning the short dimension on each unit is the go in my current thinking. 300-400mm eaves on every side except the high end. This high side is where I will be joining the two modules. Each module is to have a skillion roof and then when eventually I have two units, they will be joined along the high side to form a simple gable roof.

Plywood floor over wooden joists supported by wooden or steel bearers on piles (Aus term is piers?) 600mm off the ground - insulated by expol polystyrene blocks and damp proof membrane. Wooden piles here on site would need to be approx 600mm into ground to reach the 100kPa soil needed for bearing pressures. Concrete placed around wooden piles. A pretty conventional suspended floor design in NZ. The whole idea is for a temporary set up for a few years and then when not needed the cabins can be unbolted and can be relocated on the property or transported off-site. Cabin dimensions reflect this so as to be readily lifted by a hiab or large digger.

Although your design lends itself to SIP
I wonder if looking into timber based SIP for the walls would make internal fitoff easier.

Cutting the metal panels will never be quick/ quiet or clean!!!

If you ran conventional stick walls , made them with double 90x45 studs , 200x45 LVL on face for top and bottom plates youd have plenty of cavity to insulate.

It would also be much simpler when the time came to join two cabins on the high side to install a big LVL and open up the joining wall.

You can still fire off colourbond sheets as external wall cladding if that’s the look you want and internal walls could be gyprock or plywood or whatever took your fancy

S

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Originally Posted by windsock

Are there any fridgies on here that have seen any galvanic corrosion in cool stores made of this stuff?

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Yes,very bad corrosion,but it is usually near where it meets the concrete floor.

Insurance companies are right onto cold room panelling in buildings as well.Some buildings with the standard polystyrene sandwich panel cold rooms are actually uninsurable.

The fire rated panelling,different companies have different names for it is better,but insurance companies still don’t like it.

As an example,I know of a 1400m square tilt panel shed.
Insurance for the building was around $10K a year.
We installed 60% area of the shed into cold rooms,using the latest fire rated panelling,and the building insurance is now just over $25K.

Scarry

I have heard of fire issues in polystyrene panelling
But the Bondor panels appear to meet AUs code for bushfire safety both as walls and roofing
I’m no expert at bushfire regulations but can only go by the company certifications ?

http://bondor.com.au/sites/default/f...0072019_10.pdf


When used as a roof, the finished panels with wrap around fascia and barges would appear to my eye to be pretty safe from ember attack (barring a gutter full of leaves?)

Steve

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

Scarry

I have heard of fire issues in polystyrene panelling
But the Bondor panels appear to meet AUs code for bushfire safety both as walls and roofing
I’m no expert at bushfire regulations but can only go by the company certifications ?

http://bondor.com.au/sites/default/f...0072019_10.pdf


When used as a roof, the finished panels with wrap around fascia and barges would appear to my eye to be pretty safe from ember attack (barring a gutter full of leaves?)

Steve

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Steve, the big guys like Bondor only supply fire rated panel, I think you'll find that's all they make but some of the smaller suppliers, who knows?

As Paul said, the only spots you'll really see corrosion is where the panel is embedded in concrete with aluminum coving. Or the bare panel used as a floor in old restaurants. (Where it should have chequer plate over the top and sealed properly with silicon)

The rooms from over 30-40 years ago used an aluminum H section joiner and we never had an issue with corrosion, but the voids were filled with mastic for vapour sealing.
The new stuff is a tongue and groove design folded into the skin.
Obviously all the angles used in medium and low temp rooms still use aluminum angle, and aluminum rivets with a bucket load of non-setting mastic between.

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

Although your design lends itself to SIP
I wonder if looking into timber based SIP for the walls would make internal fitoff easier.

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Good points Roverrescue. Internal fitout will be easy enough with light timber framed walls with the SIP-adjacent stud tek-screwed to the SIP or fixed by angles screwed to each adjacent surface. There are specifications from the manufacturer that show various methods.

The principal reason I am looking at SIPS is cost effectiveness. Light wood frames (conventional stick build) are more expensive than SIPs and far more labour intensive to erect due in part to a bureaucratic system administered by councils shy/nervous from an era of leaky homes liability issues. While I am comfortable with stick-builds and can do it, it is not considered at present due to cost and time constraints. Timber is stupid crazy prices here in NZ at the moment. We have a building boom driven by a housing shortage. Lead times for some materials is months. China is paying a premium for wood logs so many mills here have to pay the same premium prices just to get raw materials. Some milling places are going out of business through lack of raw material. Carter Holt Harvey, one of our biggest mills and supplier of wide-wood (joists and beams etc) has stated publicly it will cease supplying Bunnings, ITM and Mitre 10 and will only supply subsidiary merchants due to not being able to keep up with demand. Some real strange stuff happening in the market place at present for a country full of bloody pine trees.

As for subsequent joining of modules (cabins); strategically placed exterior doors become interior doors later [thumbsupbig] Design layout means I can later have either joined cabins or two free standing cabins with exterior doors fitted.

And for a dwelling all services will be exposed, all electrical will have to be run in conduit, etc etc.
That may increase the cost of finishing compared to a conventional build.

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Originally Posted by scarry

Yes,very bad corrosion,but it is usually near where it meets the concrete floor.

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Yep, reading the spec table of compatible materials in the building code I'd need to watch out for water around surfaces where cement surfaces and aluminium can come into contact. Another thing I would need to watch is the use of Copper Chrome Arsenic (CCA) treated wood coming into contact with aluminium or galvanised surfaces and water.

I will add insurance issues to the things I need to do due diligence on.