fantastic stripdown of 300 series Landcruiser.

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Originally Posted by Parker

The 300 chassis ladder frame seems very similar to my 2005 Defender.

Can someone tell me why the Defender had to be stopped? .....

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simple really! ... old defender just wasn't popular. To spend time and money on redeveloping it to current standards would have been economic suicide for a company as small as JLR, even tho it has the financial might of a large Indian company behind it.
New one was designed to be a a higher volume selling vehicle specifically targeted at a contemporary customer type.

Quick look at sales figures shows that JLR has succeeded with that plan.
Had they 'updated' the old Defer .. would have cost a small fortune, and sales numbers would still have been 1/5th of what the current model is seeing.

ps. don't look at Aussie car sales volumes. We are weird here in what we buy .. totally different market space compared to rest of the world.
In the US for example, the cruiser doesn't sell very well(there was talk that it may be discontinued there). Current defender outsells it by about 3-4 times over.
Over there, Toyota sells the Sequoia model.
Larger again than the Cruiser(think of Suburban sized vehicle .. and note that the Yanks seem to prefer bigger over better!) .. Sequoia is cheaper than Cruiser and outsells it by about 10x(with the caveat that the Sequoia is now a very dated design, and has declined in sales over the past 10 years to 1/5th of what it used to sell, but cruiser has seen some updates).

In Europe, they lump the two passenger cruisers(Prado and 100/200 series V8's together) and new Defender outsells them both.
By comparison to Aus, Toyota would be considered to be 'wildly unpopular' over there. We see it only from our point of view, not the other parts of the world.

It does seem strange that Toyota put in any effort to sell so few vehicles, because the only two markets where the cruiser seems to sell is Aus and Africa, with respect to the popularity of the vehicle.

So the 300 series was really maintained for Aus and Africa, using a basic vehicle design. No doubt that it costs more to actually manufacture this type of separate body chassis style.
The small volume of sales(worldwide) and cost of R&D into the 300 series would be why the sales price had risen so much too.

Great video but the 300 - yawn. No innovation, a tiny boot and i can see plenty of these on tilt trays as no one will be able to touch anything on these motors.
Surprised that they didn't move to IRS, design seems to be part Y62 and part Ssang Yong - fugly.

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Originally Posted by loanrangie

Great video but the 300 - yawn. No innovation, a tiny boot and i can see plenty of these on tilt trays as no one will be able to touch anything on these motors.
Surprised that they didn't move to IRS, design seems to be part Y62 and part Ssang Yong - fugly.

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Why go to IRS,more maintenance,less wheel travel,PITA for towing,for very little gain?

Innovation?

Most so called innovations are just redeveloped and modified copies of whatever,that have been around for many decades.

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Originally Posted by AK83

It does seem strange that Toyota put in any effort to sell so few vehicles, because the only two markets where the cruiser seems to sell is Aus and Africa, with respect to the popularity of the vehicle.

So the 300 series was really maintained for Aus and Africa, using a basic vehicle design. No doubt that it costs more to actually manufacture this type of separate body chassis style.
The small volume of sales(worldwide) and cost of R&D into the 300 series would be why the sales price had risen so much too.

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The LC 200/300 is very popular in other countries,as well as Australia,which is second for volume on the list behind the Emerates.

Total worldwide sales are around 420000 units annually for 200 only,which no doubt the 300 will eclipse easily.That is pre Covid figures.

To put that into perspective,LR produce,or they used to before Covid,around 650000 vehicles,worldwide total,annually.

So worldwide sales of the New Defender have a very long way to go to match the LC300,it will never happen.

I can’t see LR continuing with some of their small volume vehicles such as D5 that sells around a very low volume of around 40000 a year pre Covid,and not increasing.

Looking at Aus,European vehicles have never sold very well,LR sales are around 6000 a year pre Covid.Just LC 200 sales for 2019 exceeded approximately 20000.Then there is the 70 series that sells around 12000 a year.

The largest European seller in Aus is Mercedes,but sales are no where near the Jap or Korean brands,with Toyota total sales all variants absolutely smashing everyone else,by a country mile.

In the US,they like their own large utes,wagons,etc.

The only real competition the 300 will have is the y62,LR are not even in the race,world wide,or in Aus.

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Originally Posted by scarry

Why go to IRS,more maintenance,less wheel travel,PITA for towing,for very little gain?

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More maintenance yes, but the rest i beg to differ. Read some reviews from folks that have actually jumped from toyota to nissan, most wished they had done it a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by Vern

More maintenance yes, but the rest i beg to differ. Read some reviews from folks that have actually jumped from toyota to nissan, most wished they had done it a long time ago.

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And there are many that have jumped the other way for whatever reason.

But anyway,let them jump whatever way they want[biggrin]

Edit,with the huge price difference,I can’t work out why more haven’t moved to the Patrol.

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Originally Posted by scarry

And there are many that have jumped the other way for whatever reason.

But anyway,let them jump whatever way they want[biggrin]

Edit,with the huge price difference,I can’t work out why more haven’t moved to the Patrol.

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They have and are moving to the patrol, they just can't get them due to demand.

I'm on a few patrol pages, and a 200/patrol page, and the number point towards the move to the patrol by a loooong way.

Australia is the only country the 200 out sells it, the UAE the 62 is car of choice, they love that v8[emoji846].

I'd still prefer the defender[emoji846]
Just can't convince wifey to buy a Land Rover product[emoji848][emoji1]

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Originally Posted by AK83

In the US for example, the cruiser doesn't sell very well(there was talk that it may be discontinued there). Current defender outsells it by about 3-4 times over.
Over there, Toyota sells the Sequoia model.
Larger again than the Cruiser(think of Suburban sized vehicle .. and note that the Yanks seem to prefer bigger over better!) .. Sequoia is cheaper than Cruiser and outsells it by about 10x(with the caveat that the Sequoia is now a very dated design, and has declined in sales over the past 10 years to 1/5th of what it used to sell, but cruiser has seen some updates).
.

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I saw a couple of US car magazine reviews of the Land Cruiser 200 series - they completely bagged it: expensive, bad handling, cramped, poor economy. Makes sense - the big US utes, and their station wagon variations, are much better packages for towing and carting people around.

There is one blogger in the USA who has an LC200, but he ripped out its suspension and installed the independent suspension set-up from the Tundra, which he said made it ride much better:

Inside My Custom Toyota Land Cruiser Build - Outside Online

He seems to have a relationship with ARB in the USA, hence the ARB bullbars and other gear.

I'd be suspicious of some sales info.
For example, landcruiser sales in Europe are lumped as both Prado and the 'v8' series(100/200s) .. so to say xxx number of sales of the Landcruiser is a bit ambiguous..
Same for the LC200 figures.
In the GCC(that I know of), LC sales include both the 100/200 series AND the 70 series wagons and utes.
That is, GCC(mid east) sales volumes of LCs will include all LC types. I assume LC300 will be similarly lumped into the same mix, but the engine changed(ie. no v8) may affect this.

Also in the GCC, over 50% of the market share for the entire region is dominated by Saudi Arabia .. who we know is a massive oil producing nation.
So it would be reasonable to assume(can't find exact figures) that oil companies account for a huge portion of LC ute sales.

So the Middle East sales figures are confusion to say the least.

I don't want to turn the discussion into a non LC300 one, but a small curiosity .. in Qatar, the Defender is now the 6th most popular vehicle!
While the LC(no definition of which model/models) is still number 1, it's advantage dropped a long way, and Patrol is now on par for sales volumes.

I would consider Qatar a more reasonable guide to determine private car sales figures, as opposed to heavily commercial based Saudi centric volumes.

Overall tho the trend is clear, LC sales figures around the world have taken a deep dive .. whether due to model age, or buyers need for more advanced tech features
(eg. seems that Apple Car Play is one of the most important aspects of a cars success! [bighmmm])
And as the LC 300 is more specifically aimed at the private sector, I thought this was the essence of the topic.

Based on dwindling sales .. ie. expect more of the same(unlike Tesla minded business projections) .. the LC300 really had to avoid a costly development if Toyota are to recoup good returns from it. Makes no sense to waste $s on a IRS in development, and more than likely require a lot more individual parts for that setup too .. makes a more costly build per unit, which always goes to the consumer .. making it less value for money .. etc.

Yeah , terrible cars.
That is why they are worthless.
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Regards PhilipA