Thread: legal hi/low beam hid

On HIDs, All 35 watt units measure watts out of ballast to lamp, OEM or Aftermarket (China) Note input to 35watt units is approx 42 watts.
Average lumen output = 2800 /3200L
Osram and Phillips / OEM have approximately 90 lumens per watt output where as lamps made in China are in the range of 75 /85 lumen watt
All HIDs above 35 w eg /50w /70w /100w measure input to ballast not output therefore to get watts to the lamp x 80% ( ballast losses) to get approx watts EG 50w input x 80% = 40w to lamp x approx 85% Lumen / watts (China) = 3400Lumen output

70w x 80% = 56 watts x 85% L/W 4750Lumens output

100watt x 80% =80 watts x 85L/w =approx 7000 Lumen (102.3 watts input as tested by me) I emailed the manufacturer /not the supplier and they emailed back with the input and output of this ballast / 100w in x 75watt out

It appears everybody advertising on these sites and forums just grabs the stated watts (input or output) and multiplies it X Osram OEM HID efficiency of approx 90%. Great for numbers on paper but not the truth.

These numbers vary slightly due to manufacturing tolerances but close enough to do your own calculations

The only difference between HID OEM reflectors and Halogen are for headlight kits, the cutoffs and angles are different to suit the changed arc light source and on spotlights the HIDs eg Hella have a slight deviation in the reflector to hide the shadow line caused by the insulating tube on the lamps. Lightforce have removed the insulating tube from their lamps to remove the shadow but does leave a very high voltage wire exposed to the user.

Halogen lamps vary depending an gas makeup, pressure and lamp life but they have Lumen/Watt outputs between about 17L/w and 35L/w
HIDs look brighter because the colour rendering of a HID (Closer to Blue) 4300Kelvin + has more glare, your pupils do not respond to blue light and contract as they do with halogen (more yellow)up to 3300Kelvin. Hence why even a low wattage blue lamp looks bright (glare) even though the lumen output is much lower and why yellow filters give less glare in fog ( less dispersion), and blue filters ( blue painted lamp or filters) give more glare due to the short wavelength blue light reflecting ( dispersing ) up to 16 times more than yellow (long wavelength) light.
That is why old ice, the sea and deep snow looks blue. Short wavelength reflection.
This why suppliers of blue coated halogen lamps state 50% brighter/ whiter (Glare)
But they neglect to tell you lumen output compared to the same lamp non coated.
Re satements like getting 100watt output with 55 watt current draw as some $40.00 to $80.00 lamps quote, that is called perpetual motion. We would all like to get something for nothing. The blue coating is to give the impression of brightness.
If you made a 130w and a 55w with the same gas mix, pressure and life the output differences would be huge.
From your base lumen output of between 2800 /3200 from a 35watt Hid of 4300 kelvin your lumen output (intensity) will decrease by approx 5% per 1000 kelvin upwards on top of the previous calculations.

I think you two guys need to get a room somewhere

Mmm, I don't really know the point you're trying to make Tombie.

The right hids aren't hard on my eyes, and they produce way more light for the amount of watts used than any filimant bulb ever will. You cannot run a tungsten filimant on 15000ish volts - thats where the efficiency is (v×a=w and derivations thereof). The annode will degrade over time as you say, but in the 10 years they've been on dad's spotlights, they haven't visibly changed colour.

Personally I think 52amp to run those two bulbs is just crazy, and im sure it would shorten the life of the alternator and the plastic relector in the d2.

Just wondering though, how many volts are you getting to the high powered bulbs? It'd be interesting to measure the voltage, and then after an hours driving measure them again.

I'm running them on a D4 in driving lights - at a stable regulated 24volts.

No issue with the current draw, as the vehicle has a factory 180amp alternator

And the point I'm making is not regarding efficiency - it's regarding output.
Even the driving lights on the D2 put out over 5000 lumens each, using filament bulbs - which out "light" the 70w HIDs it had previously.

This is done at a current draw of 23 amps, a trifling amount for a modern charging system.

With reference to your driving lights that are 10 years old - sorry, but the colour rendering will be different - as are your eyes now you are 10 years older!

Tell you what, when you spend as much time hauling around outback roads as I do, for
Hours on end, then feel free to comment on suitability of product for purpose.

Compare the number of long haul trucks now running High output lights in a filament vs HiD and ask the truckers why... Eye strain is often the major reason followed closely by warm up time.

Let's just agree to disagree - I've spoken with the tech boffins at Osram, and some of the leaders in automotive lighting systems and their learned statements conflict with your perceptions.

If your lighting works for you - great... Happy trails...

I've been following this topic for a while and been itching to chime in but it's hard to type on my iPhone while I'm away on holidays.

I have previously done plenty of night driving all over Australia and I will always drive with HID if I can. I did over 110,000 km per year and many at night because I had to be at the next job before the next day.


My brother is an interstate truck driver, driving from Bathurst to Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney and often carting wool for return trip via North Western NSW. Surprise surprise his preference is also HID in his driving lights.


I left Darwin at 3 pm last Friday and waited until the last moment possible before putting my front bumper on my Skoda Yeti. I was hopping that my HID kits that I had ordered for my Hella Rallye 4000 Compacts would arrive before I left. They didn't and I fitted some 100w Philips bulbs. After having nothing but HID in all my vehicles for at least the past 6 years, I'm far from impressed with going back to the old halogen tech. It's just rubbish in comparison.


I red Tombie's comments about the light from the HID bulb not being focused properly by the reflector. I have to say, I appreciate that. It's good. The part of the HID bulb that is positioned the same as the halogen is much brighter and still gets focused to the same area. The part of the HID bulb that is longer than the old Halogen hits the reflector at a different angle. I find this part of the light spreads more. So you get the long pencil beam of the old Halogen, only brighter and also this extra light that is reflected out all over the place. I'm not going to complain about more light in more areas.


I also have to disagree with Tombie's comments about having plenty of power to run high wattage halogens. Even though the alternator is rated at 180amp. I can guarantee that won't be constant. If you drag a big whack of power from your battery on start up or something similar, it's fine for a short burst to recharge the battery but not meant to run those sort of current for hours on end.


I am also wondering is the D4 24v?


Happy Days

I forgot to add. I left Darwin at 3pm on Friday and arrived in Bathurst 4am Monday morning. Coming through Bourke at 8pm with no bull bar and crappy halogens was not fun at all. I have video I can post when I get back to Darwin. I just don't think people understand how many roos there are out there. Those that I have shown around here have commented there are more roos on the road than guide posts.

Oh and further. HID lights are no good for spot lighting. The idea is the light blinds the animal and it can see where to go so it sits. HID spot lights throw out so much light the whole area is lite up and the animals just run around like it day time.


Happy Days

Ahh, I understand know.

Not an issue at all Tombie, horses for courses. We've both different experiences and knowledge.

TBH I'm interested in seeing what those bulbs are like now; the glass reflector in the hellas would be perfect.......

Hi

I too have been following this excellent thread with interest and having a background in electronics and photography, I can see where the confusion comes between power and lumens.

Sounds to me like the best halogen H4 bulbs in the standard spots combined with HIDs would be a good compromise without needing a heap of wiring changes.

Steve