Thread: Buying advice? Possible new P38 owner

Welcome to this fantastic resource!

This has been done to death. Do a search and you should come up with many results. Buttt...

Before you take one for a drive:

Do you like the look of the P38?
Do you enjoy tinkering with cars?
Do you do your own servicing?
Are you OK with a multimeter?

If you answered no to any of the above then don't take one for a drive. Once you do, you will be hooked on the ride, comfort, noise level, space. They are an absolutely sensational car, and when they came out in 1995 I can see why they cost over 100 grand. However, they have dated and more modern cheaper 4X4's have nearly caught up. I absolutely adore mine , which i've had for 12months, even though I've had to put a new motor in. It would also have to be one of the easiest cars i've worked on (HQ holdens excluded)

YOU MUST HAVE THE MOTOR THOROUGHLY CHECKED FOR OVERHEATING ISSUES AND POSSIBLE LOOSE LINER OR CRACKED BLOCKS.

Major problems in order:
1. Cracked block/loose liners
2. EAS Problems
3. Leaking heater Orings (primary cause of no.1)
4. Electrical Issues (possible caused by no.3)

The P38 was well ahead of its time in 1995, and had many features, that started appearing on normal cars in about 2000, such as serial data communications to each door, a central body computer that controls all functions of the car and interfaces with the 7+ other ECU's etc.

Two resources
- this site (AULRO)
- Range Rovers

Hope this helps

Stu

P.S. HSE models have an absolutely AWESOME Harmon Kardon Stereo System

Originally Posted by dagget

Kinda poses a problem, is the P38 grief worth the benefits? What should I look for? Is it a good machine for mainly highway tarmac (i live in the countryside) and not serious off road..

In my view, a P38A is definately worth the hassles.

Stu has summarised it very well. Don't drive a P38A unless you are prepared to be disappointed if/when you drive almost any other pre-2003 4WD out there.

They are highly addictive and potentially expensive beasts to keep on the road. However, the relatively low capital outlay on a P38A means that you have more funds available for the inevitable maintenance. If you can deduct vehicle expenses on your tax, go for it!

Just to elaborate a little on electrical issues mentioned by Stu, be wary of any electrical components that don't work in the car. If the Climate control has a book symbol on its display, it usually means something bad (often referred to as the cheque book symbol). A beep coming from the dash and errors on the info display when you try to start the car is usually bad news too.

The engine should run smooth and have impressive acceleration from a stop.

As Stu said, do a search around here and on RangeRovers.net.

Cheers, Paul.

"In my view, a P38A is definately worth the hassles."

That line say's it all, to be P38A owner you are resigned to the fact your going to have issues and are comfortable with that.

Originally Posted by DirtyDawg

"In my view, a P38A is definately worth the hassles."

That line say's it all, to be P38A owner you are resigned to the fact your going to have issues and are comfortable with that.

Approximately 10 000 kms and no hassles so far! I love the car, by far the best I've ever had. And I've only got the pov pak version!

Willem

My question would also be.
"What is your intended use?"
If it is just cruising around town and maybe the odd offroad weekend, then by all means buy a 38A.
However if you want to do touring and extensive off road, my recommendation is to buy a RRC with coils or Disco 1.

The simpler they are the less to go wrong. eg water crossings
D1 or RRC most likely failure wheel bearings $50 aside 38A integral hub at $500?
Auto trans in 38A is electronic.Wet contacts in connection can mean refusal to move. Saw report of someone on GRR in D2 who had to be towed hundreds of Ks.
Sand dunes. unless you replace all air bags it is common for old bags to pop off mounts.

Regards Philip A

Originally Posted by PhilipA

My question would also be.
"What is your intended use?"
If it is just cruising around town and maybe the odd offroad weekend, then by all means buy a 38A.
However if you want to do touring and extensive off road, my recommendation is to buy a RRC with coils or Disco 1.

The simpler they are the less to go wrong. eg water crossings
D1 or RRC most likely failure wheel bearings $50 aside 38A integral hub at $500?
Auto trans in 38A is electronic.Wet contacts in connection can mean refusal to move. Saw report of someone on GRR in D2 who had to be towed hundreds of Ks.
Sand dunes. unless you replace all air bags it is common for old bags to pop off mounts.

Regards Philip A

I was talking a few weeks ago with a chap with a 99 P38 with 280k kms on it, including extensive trips up to the Gulf of Carpentaria, and he has had no problems.

You can go back to an old RRC and have a vehicle that is 'easier' to repair (Though note the above comments on how easy it is to work on a P38), and put up with an older, less capable and less comfortable vehicle. Or you can go with a better, more modern and more capable vehicle. The choice is yours.

If I read the nature of the debate on this forum correctly, there are two major points of view represented: Those who are comfortable with new technology and the new challenges it presents, and those who are not.

If you are comfortable with the challenge of electronics and air suspension, and are willing to take the time to find out how to deal with them, buy a P38 and enjoy it. You'll drive like a king for very little money!

If you are not comfortable with those challenges, and prefer to deal with more passive systems such as coils and carburettors/ relatively simple EFI systems, by an RRC/ D1/ Defender.

Either choice is valid. It depends purely on your preference. What you should not do is be intimidated by those who will say that either one or the other is not suitable for serious off road work. With proper preparation any of the vehicles I have mentioned above is eminently suitable for serious off road work.

In short, if you are happy learning about and dealing with the challenges of a P38, go for it and enjoy a brilliant vehicle for a song. If not, buy one of the others. They too are excellent vehicles, with their own set of challenges, and you can enjoy them too.


Willem

Thanks so much for all the replies and apologies for posting a searchable subject, but I needed a bit of reassurance. Also I have spent the last week searching and looking for info on the RRC and Disco ES and this was an out of the blue option.

The comments certainly adds a great deal to what I found already using search so thanks very much.

In response to some comments all the cars I have are either old or need a bit of work to keep them going that I am happy with doing. Prime example is a 94 Renault that suffers from countless electronic maldies (none of the complexity of the RR of course) but after a deep breath I have been happy enough to fix. - This needs a bit of context as the 'other' cars we have are triumphs and a 65 beetle with no electronics at all.

That being said, the missus is not too confident at cars that go wrong (even if I can fix them easily) and slowly gives up driving them, we had poor starting/battery drain and other maldies with the french car so she does not drive it anywhere! Even the sniff of problems in another could make it a black day but if you want a reliable car go buy a toyota corolla!

Intended use is mainly tarmac/touring and occasional off road for camping. We are going to take it slowly before we get to the serious activity and then get a more appropriate LR with accesories.

The RR became a bit of a comprimise as we needed a car with good load capacity that you can take to the shops and tow a decent trailer. The missus wont buy/drive a station wagon but I happend to come accross a 94 RRC at the local mechanic and using my excellent power of suggestion a RR became the ideal choice!

I checked the RangeRovers.net P38 site and . Well not really, while there are lots that could happen and some that are expensive the rest sound just like what I have experienced before with the french car (stuck thermostats, non-working thermo fans, flat batteris). Frustrating but fixable if you have the procedures.

Anyway it is all largely acedemic now as the car has been sold

It must be in record time as well the car was a 95 HSE 4.6. The advertiser dropped the price from $10K to $6K last night and in the time it took me to look on this site, post a question and go through the RR.net pages the car had been sold.

Only thing that put me off was the line that it had to go by Friday giving very little time to check any details. So back to looking for other options, glad I did not drive it before trying a Disco or RRC otherwise I might have been in real trouble.

If you are comfortable with the challenge of electronics and air suspension, and are willing to take the time to find out how to deal with them, buy a P38 and enjoy it. You'll drive like a king for very little money!

If you are not comfortable with those challenges, and prefer to deal with more passive systems such as coils and carburettors/ relatively simple EFI systems, by an RRC/ D1/ Defender.

Either choice is valid. It depends purely on your preference. What you should not do is be intimidated by those who will say that either one or the other is not suitable for serious off road work. With proper preparation any of the vehicles I have mentioned above is eminently suitable for serious off road work.

Willem, I think you are trying to figuratively "polish a cow dropping" here.

The issue as I understand it from talking to specialists , is that there are many electronic systems in 38As that you cannot replace with jury rigs easily and that are very expensive to replace or not feasible to replace in out of the way places. eg door locks and central locking

I can recall being at Graeme Coopers when they were attemting to fix alarm faults for hours and hours.
His comment to me then (in about 2003 ) was that the up to 1999 models were "a nightmare" and for the Bosch ones "it was to early to tell" ,but from what I see they do seem much better.

I have had many "removed by one" experiences with a member of my 4WD club.
The members 38A rarely completed a track without problems. I have seen the traction control give up, heater hoses blow, and have seen photos where his airbags fell out in the Simpson.

This is leaving out the potentiually ruinous sleeve problems that seem to be had by a high proportion of cars 50% plus?

My advice would be to only buy a Cherry 1999 onwards with low mileage ( under 100K if possible ) and a service history, and evidence of the problems that that have occurred being fixed.

A 180KK car is approaching ZF auto problems $4000 plus( not confined to 38A but also RRC and Disco) and maybe Borg Warner transfer problems $3000?. ( again also RRC). Although it probably already has had an engine or two. LOL
The ABS problem raised on this forum is another example. NO brakes. Who needs it?

While it is an issue of simple vs complex , it is not an issue of being comfortable with modern electronics. It is more an issue of appropriate levels of technology and risk caused by immature design and execution in 38A , and why a Defender still has coils, as do most Landcruisers , Prados, Pajeros, Patrols etc.
And I for one do not think there is such a thing as a "cheap" 38A although a mate has had one for about 6 years with no problems, but you should see the PO file, and he never takes it off road and he bought low mileage and service history.
Regards Philip A