Thread: PROJECT 2A, New Headlight wiring up grade

G'Day Drivesafe,
I have been following with interest the debate on wiring lights/driving lights and have no idea what either of you are talking about, but....

Years ago when I had my 2 door Rangie I put the car into an old time auto electrician, Doring Bros in Rockdale, for a new alternator. Just as a bit of trivia Bill Doring's father built the first battery powered car in the world which is still in Sydneys Museum of Applied Sciences in Ultimo.

When I went down to pick it up he had thrown the old 38amp Lucas away in favour of a 55amp Bosch of a F100. And he told me he had rewired my driving lights from the power from the + terminal on the battery to the + terminal on the alternator, simply explaining that it was better constant power, no cable length issue on a Rangie.

Ever since I've always wired driving lights this way for myself and the many mates over many years, not to any detriment my Defender lights still beaming after 9 years.

You state that if it was better manufacturers would do it this way, but every one knows they take the easy way out. Its a fact that port & polishing & blue printing a head makes immense improvent on any engine especially a diesel, but manufacturers don't do it because of cost adding to the price of a car.

I'm just pointing out that there are always better ways to do things, if you look outside the square, nothing is black & white.

I think you may mean oldest electric car in Australia ( ? ) or Mr Doring’s father would have to have been a very old man because mass produced electric cars, NOTE NOT the first electric car, were available in the USA as far back as 1904.

As far as manufactures taking the easiest way out, in many cases, in some vehicles, connecting to the alternator rather than the battery would be the easiest way out but NONE of the manufacturers do it.

Plus it’s a bit of a stretch, trying to compere mass production cost of standard engine manufacturing to the huge cost of blue printing every engine that came off a given assembly line. Very few people could afford the vehicles.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by drivesafe

I think you may mean oldest electric car in Australia ( ? ) or Mr Doring’s father would have to have been a very old man because mass produced electric cars, NOTE NOT the first electric car, were available in the USA as far back as 1904.

As far as manufactures taking the easiest way out, in many cases, in some vehicles, connecting to the alternator rather than the battery would be the easiest way out but NONE of the manufacturers do it.

Plus it’s a bit of a stretch, trying to compere mass production cost of standard engine manufacturing to the huge cost of blue printing every engine that came off a given assembly line. Very few people could afford the vehicles.

Cheers.

I may have had it wrong it may have been Australia, but Bills in his seventies (70's) now born the in thirties, so his father at least could have been right there at the start, the original business was his fathers before cars came along ( I do know the family quite well), but I will check it though for my own interest.

Interesting inventive family, Bill's brother moved to QLD, & was interested in firearms got into gunsmithing & invented a replacement for the Owen & F1, it matched/exceeded all the Owen attributes in all tests, but were rejected out of hand because he was a nobody in firearm circles. In fact there was a bit on him & the gun on Mike Willisee back then. He later made headlines being arrested for a number of automatic weapons in his care...most he made himself, he also owned a large bow hunting club on the gold coast somewhere.

Quote
Plus it’s a bit of a stretch, trying to compere mass production cost of standard engine manufacturing to the huge cost of blue printing every engine that came off a given assembly line. Very few people could afford the vehicles.

No just blue printing the head, I've had it done its not that dear, but add the cost of polishing, and then it becomes prohibitative to do adding up the price of the car, but they would definately run better with more power & less fuel used.

Its just interesting though, your so keen that its not the right way to do it, & here are some quite famous old auto sparkies doing it for years, can't be totaly wrong. I know them, I don't know you & your background to denounce this method so harshly.

Hi RoverOne, I’d be interested to hear the full story behind their electric car but from memory, the pomes claim to have made the first electric car back in 1896 but as I posted, the yanks were mass producing them in 1904 and I think one of the motoring museums here, has one.

As far as picking up at the alternator goes, again as many vehicles manufacturers would save construction and material cost as it would be simpler to pick up at the alternator than the battery because of the physical layout of the vehicle, EG Land Rover Defender, but non do.

One more point, what do you mean by “ better constant power “.

The current coming out of the back of the alternator jumps all over the place, as different devices through at the vehicle, are turned on or off and the battery actually acts to smooth out these current fluctuations.

Worst still, the voltage at the back of any alternator still has AC spikes in it and a combination of the cable running between it and the battery and the battery itself, act the filter the power before it gets to the rest of the vehicle.

Try disconnecting your battery while the motor is running and see how long you can go before you do some damage to either the alternator and/or some of your vehicle’s electronics, because even a stuffed battery works to filter the power coming from the alternator, so I don’t understand what you mean by “ better constant power “.

Cheers

i.ve read your post with interest and intend to upgrade my headlights, however living in the u.k.,purchasing your kit may prove a little expensive and similar manufactured kits available here cost £70 upwards!!
naturally, the wiring itself won't pose any difficulty. the relay may though. is it a relay that is commonly available? and if so, could you post more details about it. any other sugestions would also be useful.

many thanks.

Hi jasper110, unfortunately, I can’t give you any assistance on where to get the relay, it’s branded NEW ERA and I would recommend you try an auto electrical wholesaler.

It took took me a while to track them down over here. Normally I would go to the manufacture’s web site and make a request for the Australian distributor for a given product, but no matter how much I searched, I just could not find a manufactures web site for these relays.

I finally managed to track down an auto electrical wholesaler who could supply them, but only in large quantities.

Try your luck over there.

Failing that, a kit landed in the UK would probably set you back around £50 ( at a guess)

Cheers.

thanks for the prompt reply, would taking the line picture of the relay as shown above help if i showed it to an auto-electrician?

Originally Posted by drivesafe

(snip)

One more point, what do you mean by “ better constant power “.

The current coming out of the back of the alternator jumps all over the place, as different devices through at the vehicle, are turned on or off and the battery actually acts to smooth out these current fluctuations.

Worst still, the voltage at the back of any alternator still has AC spikes in it and a combination of the cable running between it and the battery and the battery itself, act the filter the power before it gets to the rest of the vehicle.

Try disconnecting your battery while the motor is running and see how long you can go before you do some damage to either the alternator and/or some of your vehicle’s electronics, because even a stuffed battery works to filter the power coming from the alternator, so I don’t understand what you mean by “ better constant power “.

Cheers

Without wishing to prolong this argument, I would point out that it is the battery itself that does the "filtering" of uneven voltage and AC ripple from the alternator - in any practical wiring system the reactance of the alternator to battery lead is virtually zero at the frequencies involved, and the resistance is deliberately low.

You are absolutely right about the effects of disconnecting the battery - but this does not imply that there are more spikes at the alternator than the battery end of the wire between them - there are, but the difference is very small, and is kept that way by the very low resistance and negligible reactance of the wire. By the same reasoning, of course, the power at the alternator is neither better nor more constant - assuming that by "power" he means voltage, the voltage at the alternator will vary by exactly the same percentage as the voltage at the battery, but will be higher while ever the alternator is charging (which is the normal situation when driving), by an amount equal to the alternator output multiplied by the resistance of the wire. This will be a small figure, perhaps a tenth of a volt, but increasing the voltage to the lights by this amount gives a disproportionate increase in light output. A side effect is that with the lights on, the battery is more fully charged than it would be if they ran off the battery as the current (and hence voltage drop) in the alternator - battery wire is less by the light drain. Always assuming the alternator puts out more current than the lights take - and it had better, or that battery is going to go flat!

There is no load other than driving or headlights where the small increase in voltage is significant, except perhaps for a high power radio transmitter - and few cars have these - so no advantage in taking other power circuits from the alternator.
John