every thing about winches

**stig0000** · 20th October 2010, 10:51 PM

well iv looked and cant find anything about what im after, so il start it off,

im going to be buying a winch very soon after a few NOT planed trips out, trips that turned into 25hr and last week a 12hr recovery sesh,

and god nose how many lil trips

so this is were its at, show us your winch and how its set up, what you like about it and what you hate and would change next time, duel batterys a must or just dont switch the motor off??

iv allways been on i dont need a winch becouse im allways with other people, well when your have 12 cars stuck with in snatch strap distance of each other you do have a bit of a problem,

**Blknight.aus** · 21st October 2010, 05:52 AM

A tirfor...

doesnt matter where or which vehicle gets stuck so long as youve kept it serviced it'll work regardless of flat batteries, stalled engines and it'll winch any way you want it to. And it transfers from vehicle to vehicle in under a minute in any carpark.

miky · 21st October 2010, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

A tirfor...

doesnt matter where or which vehicle gets stuck so long as youve kept it serviced it'll work regardless of flat batteries, stalled engines and it'll winch any way you want it to. And it transfers from vehicle to vehicle in under a minute in any carpark.

While the statement is true... if you have never used a tirfor I would seriously suggest you try before you buy. Apart from the speed factor you need to be pretty fit.
I have used tirfors for shifting large switchboards and motors into place so the distances were not great.

.

**Psimpson7** · 21st October 2010, 07:19 AM

Ok my setup is currently.

Front:

Warn Hi Mount (M8274-50)
XP 6HP Motor
Albright DC88-556PL contactor
Wire rope

Rear:

Warn XP (Swapped to 4.6hp motor from 8274)
Albright DC88-556PL contactor
Wire rope

General:

Both switched Internally and Externally
Both Isolated individually with 500amp continous, 2500amp peak isolators
70mm welding cable running through chassis rails for them front and rear.
Both running 500amp mega fuses just in case.
Dual batteries, connected with isolator.

Got loads if pics if you want to see them.

What would I change. In terms of general setup, nothing, in terms of hardware, I would put an 8274 on the rear now aswell.

This is the 3rd recovery setup I have used, the previous being XP's front and rear.

Rgds
Pete

**Adrian Mc** · 21st October 2010, 07:36 AM

Having used a tirfor for recovering a 6x6 I can say that yes it will pull you out any way you want but it is bloody hard work. It took 4 of us taking turns cranking to end up pulling us out in the end. Definitely not something I want to do again in a hurry!!

I have also been involved in the recovery of a 100 series Cruiser that was stuck in mud up to the floor pan.
A PTO winch didn't cut the mustard pulling it out, it was shifting the LR forward, even with chocked wheels and having spent time on a shovel digging. It took a Mack truck and a drag chain in the end to just yank the thing out.

Photo one shows the Cruiser stuck on the left and a LR driving past quite happily on the right
Photo two shows the winch cable still out (it hadn't been spooled back in yet) and the Mack that pulled out the Cruiser, and still the LR quite happily continuing on his way.

I wasn't driving the Cruiser by the way, I was in the winch equipped LR.

**Bearman** · 21st October 2010, 07:53 AM

I guess ultimately it's a personal decision which type of winch you go for. All the different types have their props and cons. Tirfors and come alongs are ok for the occasional use but they take up a fair bit of space and setting up. Electric ones are fine if you buy a reputable brand but the drawback with them is the slow retrieval speed and the need to have them connected to a separate battery and alternator capable to handling the current draw. Also you have to allow them to cool down when using them constantly. Then there is the PTO type which has a drive unit on the transfer case and a shaft to the winch. This type allows for the winch to be driven at different speeds by using the gearbox gears. You can also have the engine idling in gear and use the winch at the same time. The only disadvantge with this type is the engine has to be running so if you drown your engine in a creek crossing you have no winch. I have used all types including improvising a chain hoist and consider the PTO type to be the most reliable and robust especially if you run a diesel and have a snorkel etc to limit the possibility of water ingestion. There is a weight issue to consider with bar mounted winches and heavier front springs are usually required. The convenience of just having to pull or spool the rope out when needed is advantageous to setting up a tirfor etc. Horses for courses is the saying.

**weeds** · 21st October 2010, 07:55 AM

i have a pto winch, my install should be on here somewhere

have not really used it on my rig but have used them extensively on military 6x6's

i was about to buy a pto driven hydraulic pump to drive a hydraulic winch but the pto shaft driven came up at a good price

why have i not gone electric, the few times i have help out with an electic winch recovery there is normally electrical issues.......more poor installation or maintenance by the owner, in saying that 99% of 4wd would be fitted with an electric winch

**weeds** · 21st October 2010, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Bearman

Then there is the PTO type which has a drive unit on the transfer case and a shaft to the winch. This type allows for the winch to be driven at different speeds by using the gearbox gears. You can also have the engine idling in gear and use the winch at the same time. The only disadvantge with this type is the engine has to be running so if you drown your engine in a creek crossing you have no winch.

my pto does have the provision for a crank handle to be fitted so that you can winch by hand.........i have not tried it and would be happy not to experience using a crank handle.....which reminds me, i should make a handle up

**Bearman** · 21st October 2010, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by weeds

my pto does have the provision for a crank handle to be fitted so that you can winch by hand.........i have not tried it and would be happy not to experience using a crank handle.....which reminds me, i should make a handle up

That would have to be a Thomas 8000lb. As far as I know they are the only manufacturer that offered a hand crank as an optional extra. I used to have an electric EW8000 model which I bought new and specified the hand crank as well. I used it once to try it out and it was relatively easy but as slow as watching grass grow. Decided there and then that the hand crank would only be used in dire circumstances. Handle can easily be made up by slotting a bit of correct size pipe on 1 end and weld a small uni like a steering column one on the other with a crank welded to it. I forgot to mention that there are hydraulic winches as well but they are rare on 4bys, mainly used on tow trucks etc where they have a hyd pto pump on the gearbox. Winch itself is the same as a pto type except is has a hyd motor instead of a shaft drive.

**Skiboy** · 21st October 2010, 11:39 AM

We run a Warn HiMount 8274 but an older one (like 40 yrs old) we bought second hand and refurbished on our more extreme truck - have a almost new one (from Ebay and half price) for the new truck we are building. Advantage is that can rebuild and upgrade motors and gearing ratios as needs change if want on the winch.

I also have a Warn low mount on the everyday truck (not for comps).

See Gigglepin web site in UK the guys there are fantastic with parts they make which improve the Warn 8274 original design - so you have an upgrade path and parts source if needed. For some parts they make Warn does not make parts for - eg top gear cogs Warn requires you to throw the whole assembly out and buy new = expensive. Giggle pin make parts to refurb and with different ratios so you can match your need! And at a fraction of the cost of the original part. There is a reason all the competition cars run 8274 winches!

While expensive on way in they do hold value so if you sell truck can always sell this separately and get fair bit of price back - probably all your price back if you buy second hand to start with.

As Pete and others say set it up right first (any winch) - really big cables so can take the current - fuses and isolation switches so can turn it off if it all goes bad.

My Auto electrician advised me to fuse both ends of everything when running long cables as extra safety esp with duel battery set up. Fire is your enemy no 1 with these sorts of currents - equipment damage is secondary but important.

Isolation switch Pete mentioned is also important so that can turn the whole unit off when not in use and it CANNOT we activated from outside. This stops carpark idiots using their controllers etc to operate your winch - eg they can’t pull out your cable and then attach it over the roof to the rear and wind in over your car - was shown an example of this a few years back.

Ditch the solenoid packs or when they fail ditch them and use Albright control pack as neater and can install inside vehicle.

Most times we use the winch from in the cab so wire up in-cab control - (or get a wireless remote). Outside use will be rare.

If you buy second hand (any winch) see it working if you can then get the instructions and strip, grease and replace the brake shoes. Also replace the cable as you just don’t know what the cable has been used for nor how bad it is inside. It is best if you know how to do this yourself as you can then maintain it - esp if get it fully immersed on a trip can then strip and check. We run steel but the poly rope has merits but on long pulls the breaks inside low mount winches could heat and damage polly – no issues on HiMounts as brake outside the winch.

Add a breather to the motor - drill in lower side of motor where magnets are not located (will need to pull apart or do online search - one of the online 4x4 parts guys sell kits and instructions for this) and add a fitting (you will need to tap the hole) and air line up to a breather (can use and inline fuel filter at top) and run to top of engine bay where diff breathers are. As with diffs this will prevent sucking in water when hot motor gets wet etc.

We also run a separate Alternator (from wreckers) that is set up only to charge the winch battery. Really did this to protect main charge system and as a back up - ie we are essentially carrying an alternator spare part. We have the second alternator set up on a switch so that can turn it on an off - only on when 4x4ing - normal round town driving it is off. Auto electrician set this part up for me - we did all the rest.

A couple of final considerations - a lot of comps now require (1) external cut of switches to turn everything off (including alternator and ignition) if all goes bad - might be a useful safety feature (2) also batteries have to have a cover of thick rubber so if the car rolls/hits a tree or roo and compresses the bonnet it can’t short the terminal on the battery and hence prevent fire. This is a pretty cheap safety feature.

Hope that helps the thinking process.
Skiboy

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