Thread: Busted Dyneema Rope on Tigerz11 Winch

This is interesting as only today I went through a selection process for a new rope for my Tigerz winch (also 12000lb). Firstly, the people I dealt with, and that I have dealt with for 20+ years and who have been manufacturing rigging/lifting/towing gear for a lot longer than that. The rope on the Tigerz doesn't match any sample they had of a Dyneema or plasma rope. The braiding process looks like a multibraid but the material mostly matches in appearance and feel polypropylene. Also noted by them was that anything rated for lifting could be used for pulling/dragging at a rating of 1.5times.

We pulled a spool of Donaghys M10 Ocean12 dyneema multibraid as well as 12HS (high tensile version). The material is markedly different in both appearance and feel. The std version is rated at 10.7t breaking load with 5:1 margin, the HT version (in 11mm) is rated at 16.8t at same margin. Interestingly while plasma is lighter it's also not rated as highly as the O.12 dyneema multbraid.

Also to note that both the manufacturers of the Donaghys rope, the Tigerz dealer and the rope supplier I was at today all said NOT to layer any synthetic rope onto the drum as you would a wire rope. I hook the end onto the peg and lay a cable tie under the first 4 layers and tie it. This stops the rope pulling more than the min 4 layers off the drum on free spool. Then wind the rope on under some weight (just by hand) leaving a rope diameter gap between each wind. At the end of the first layer run back across in the same manner then repeat as for the first layer except laying the rope into the grove created by the space left by the first run.

In all it's use so far, never had the rope move. Doesn't appear like it's damaged and I've always removed it completely and put through the washing machine after each weekend to wash out the braid. I'm only looking as I have 2 high mounts to respool plus update the Tigerz, the Donaghys is available by the meter at a spool price and around $5-/m less than plasma and on their abrasion resistance chart for non steel ropes is rated high for resistance.

I am considering Dyneema rope for my winch, I am going to buy about 10m of 1" (25mm) lay-flat water hose, the type used by firefighters and feed it onto the rope for protection from scuffing on rocky ground. I'm wondering how it would go on the first layer on the drum, it may act as a surface to grip the drum and protect a bit from the heat, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Tank

You certainly make rigging look easy mate, there is NO difference in using rigging gear to recover a bogged vehicle or drag a 100t piece of machinery many metres into place. The same rules apply and the same equipment is used.

Frank - you are twising my words. I said Lifting. The forces involved in Lifting can be calculated accurately by anyone who knows basic (high school) physics - at most. For the simplest case of a vertical lift using a single rope/cable and no snatch block, then the force on the rope if the weight of the object(+rope and rigging) being lifted. I don't doubt that the practical side of rigging can get very complex - however I am sure that riggers would then resort to empirical tables to calculate forces???

I would bet that even experienced riggers would only be able to hazard a ballpark guess at the load required to pull (not lift) a heavily bogged 4x4 from a mudhole.

actually they can and do....

the defence calls them reccy mechs,

advanced rigging includes doing lateral pulls and calculating out drag resistances.

most riggers dont use a table but they use a bunch of formulas and look ups, Most of these are on a ready reckoner simply pick out the appropriate formulas, key in the numbers from the look up and then push the buttons on the calculator.

for doing ground work the same numbers apply they're just laid over on their side and some of the safety numbers reduce..

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

actually they can and do....

the defence calls them reccy mechs,

advanced rigging includes doing lateral pulls and calculating out drag resistances.

most riggers dont use a table but they use a bunch of formulas and look ups, Most of these are on a ready reckoner simply pick out the appropriate formulas, key in the numbers from the look up and then push the buttons on the calculator.

for doing ground work the same numbers apply they're just laid over on their side and some of the safety numbers reduce..

Fair enough, but that is fairly specialised. I was talking about the average rigger who would work somewhere like a crane (wet) hire company.

Originally Posted by clubagreenie

This is interesting as only today I went through a selection process for a new rope for my Tigerz winch (also 12000lb). Firstly, the people I dealt with, and that I have dealt with for 20+ years and who have been manufacturing rigging/lifting/towing gear for a lot longer than that. The rope on the Tigerz doesn't match any sample they had of a Dyneema or plasma rope. The braiding process looks like a multibraid but the material mostly matches in appearance and feel polypropylene. Also noted by them was that anything rated for lifting could be used for pulling/dragging at a rating of 1.5times.

We pulled a spool of Donaghys M10 Ocean12 dyneema multibraid as well as 12HS (high tensile version). The material is markedly different in both appearance and feel. The std version is rated at 10.7t breaking load with 5:1 margin, the HT version (in 11mm) is rated at 16.8t at same margin. Interestingly while plasma is lighter it's also not rated as highly as the O.12 dyneema multbraid.

Also to note that both the manufacturers of the Donaghys rope, the Tigerz dealer and the rope supplier I was at today all said NOT to layer any synthetic rope onto the drum as you would a wire rope. I hook the end onto the peg and lay a cable tie under the first 4 layers and tie it. This stops the rope pulling more than the min 4 layers off the drum on free spool. Then wind the rope on under some weight (just by hand) leaving a rope diameter gap between each wind. At the end of the first layer run back across in the same manner then repeat as for the first layer except laying the rope into the grove created by the space left by the first run.

In all it's use so far, never had the rope move. Doesn't appear like it's damaged and I've always removed it completely and put through the washing machine after each weekend to wash out the braid. I'm only looking as I have 2 high mounts to respool plus update the Tigerz, the Donaghys is available by the meter at a spool price and around $5-/m less than plasma and on their abrasion resistance chart for non steel ropes is rated high for resistance.

Similar thoughts here, is the rope the genuine stuff. I am considering going to a rope and sling supplier that specilaises in this sort of thing to get there opinion of what to do. Most likely I will buy a guaranteed rope from someone that knows a bit about it.

Gordo.

P.S thanks for all the replies, an interesting topic.

Thats why I went where I did, LB wire ropes at Girraween NSW.

Tank: If your winch has the brake inside the drum synthetic rope IS NOT recommended at all due to the heat. The two I know of that can be used are the Tigerz and Warn hi mounts. I also asked about replacing the cheesy plastic "protector"over the hook end of the rope. I was thinking of using a cable stocking, which is a loose braided 3/32 wire sleeve that is used for pulling cables through conduits. All they recommend was using some old garden hose

Another interesting thing I've seen is that most of the ebay ads list the ropes as Syntehtic/Plasma/Dyneema all in one where plasma and dyneema are from what I've been told definately different materials.

Quote: For the simplest case of a vertical lift using a single rope/cable and no snatch block, then the force on the rope is the weight of the object(+rope and rigging) being lifted.
Isuzurover you're not getting the gist of what I'm saying for instance lets say I want to lift a square sided box that weighed 1Tonne by putting a single sling under the load, in the centre of lift and then reeve one eye of the sling through the other with one eye on the hook. What size sling (SWL) would I need to lift this load.
It would require at least a 2Tonne SWL sling, because the load is square ( the cable having to bend around a 90 degree corner diminishes it's load capacity) and one eye is reeved through the other, same scenario but lifting a round pipe is different again.
An example lets say we are in a large factory and I have to lift a load of one tonne (with chain block and flying fox type pulley) and move it to the other side of the building, the building is 60' wide and about the same in height. I would have to use a span rope tied off to ground anchors and resting above on structural beams running full length of factory and the span rope stretched across the factory. As a rigger I would have to work out the stresses involved and what size SWL rope will be needed. In this scenario with the minimum sag in the span rope (20% of span) I would need a swl wire cable capable of supporting 60Tonnes, this was unacceptable because it would have pulled the structural beams that the rope was over down and destroyed the building, by modifying the sag (increasing it) I could get the load on the span rope down to 10tonne, mind you this is only lifting a load of 1tonne.
As far as calculating the weight of a load that is being dragged, most big jobs have an engineer to work that out, that example of sag in a span rope is the same principle as using a snatch block (or a short bridle)at an angle to the line of pull, once the angle of the cable thru the block reaches 90 degrees the load doubles, over 90 degrees and you will need a formula and a calculator, so a simple lift still requires knowledge to do it safely, Regards Frank.