Bow Shackles

Personally, I think winching is more dangerous than snatching. Just about all of the time the thing to break during a snatch is the strap. That may hit the rear door or the bar and then we're done.

Winches..... the weakest link is the cable and thats got a bit more whip in it when it lets go, they go anywhere when they let go and will do more damage to a person who is further away. IF you're a regular wincher, I would highly recommend dynema etc that will just drop rather than wire.

Hand winching... now that flips me completely out irrespective of the overload pins.

The good old army chains..... if you want your chassis ripped apart.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

Personally, I think winching is more dangerous than snatching. Just about all of the time the thing to break during a snatch is the strap. That may hit the rear door or the bar and then we're done.

Winches..... the weakest link is the cable and thats got a bit more whip in it when it lets go, they go anywhere when they let go and will do more damage to a person who is further away. IF you're a regular wincher, I would highly recommend dynema etc that will just drop rather than wire.

Hand winching... now that flips me completely out irrespective of the overload pins.

The good old army chains..... if you want your chassis ripped apart.

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The snatch strap breaking is the preferred option, but how many people have been injured/killed because the recovery point, whatever type has been weaker than the snatch strap. How many U-Tube videos showing bullbars flying up the track on the end of a snatch strap, or the bloke with the shackle, still attached to the snatch strap, embedded in his rear door mounted spare.
Winch cables break because they are NOT used to their SWL/WLL capacity, why, becuase winches are sold with advertised capacities of 5T with a 10mm (or less) cable which on a good day has a Guaranteed Breaking Strain (GBS) of 5T. So your average punter reckons he will get his monies worth and try and winch 5T and then has a whinge because it broke. Of course it will break it's Guaranteed to (GBS).
Now who sells a Rated recovery point and can guarantee that it has been fitted correctly and the mounting point is up to the task. No-one sells a rated recovery point, name one retailer that can prove that thier recovery point has been tested by the appropriate authority and meets or exceeds whatever Auistralian Standard (if there is one).
So as far as I am concerned winching is infinitely safer than snatching, esp when you take into account the greater loads imposed on recovery points during snatch recoveries and the FACT that it is impossible to have any confidence in the structural integrity of the recovery point or how and where it is mounted. These same mounting points and recovery points are not usually ripped off and flung at light speed towards some unfortuante onlooker during a winching recovery, IMHO, Regards Frank.

Each to their own. :D

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

Personally, I think winching is more dangerous than snatching. Just about all of the time the thing to break during a snatch is the strap. That may hit the rear door or the bar and then we're done.

Winches..... the weakest link is the cable and thats got a bit more whip in it when it lets go, they go anywhere when they let go and will do more damage to a person who is further away. IF you're a regular wincher, I would highly recommend dynema etc that will just drop rather than wire.

Hand winching... now that flips me completely out irrespective of the overload pins.

The good old army chains..... if you want your chassis ripped apart.

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Been talking to our mutual growling, swearing, hovering smoke cloud slunnie? :D

Personally I like winching, as it's something I can do myself. Sure, it can take a while longer and it can be bloody hard work, but that's just me. Not much good having a snatch strap without another vehicle, and with a bit of creative thinking and elbow grease you can turn pretty much anything into a winch point.
However, I've changed enough guitar strings in my time to see the effects of any sort of wire under tension when it snaps. Got the scars to prove it too.
I'd rather trust myself to not cock up a winch recovery than trust someone else to do a snatch recovery properly.
That said, if I knew they did things properly and was personally satisfied with the set up I'd have no problem accepting a snatch recovery.
Cheers
Muppet

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Originally Posted by Tank

Well the vehicle with the winch goes second, you still need 2 vehicles to snatch, Regards Frank.

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yeah and snatching takes 30 seconds, winching 5-10min.
i dont like wasting time where i dont have to

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Originally Posted by Tank

it would take more thought and money to manufacture a correct recovery point and get it Rated by a competent authority

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when i was looking for rated recovery points, with eng cert, nothing was available, no guarantees.

imho someone talking about rated recovery points has been smoking too much of the funky stuff.

edit: i see what you wrote later on and i agree

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Originally Posted by Tank

How many U-Tube videos showing bullbars flying up the track on the end of a snatch strap, or the bloke with the shackle, still attached to the snatch strap, embedded in his rear door mounted spare.

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you cant blame the product when the idiots are using it wrong. we all know not to attach to bullbars/towballs

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Originally Posted by Red90

There is nothing wrong with using a snatch strap. It needs to be used properly and safely and everyone should have suitable training. All of the attachment equipment must be stronger than the strap. Straps must never be joined together with shackles.

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Please read the second sentence. If that is not clear or you do not really understand what it means, please do not ever perform and recovery with a strap.

As to suitably rated attachment points. Either make sure they are purchased from a reputable manufacturer or have someone that is capable of a bit of stress analysis to look at what you propose or have. Any engineer worth 14 cents can give an informed strength opinion in 15 minutes.

Frank, Ive seen you mention may times about the recovery pin hole being horizontal and this no good. I get what you are saying, but surely it works both ways. I mean, how often are we recovering on flat ground. I have seen many times cables being pulled higher/lower due to uneven ground, anchor location. Would it be ok to have the hole horizontal if using 2 recovery points on the one vehicle, each inline with a chassis rail, and a bridel and pully block joining the 2?

Most hill recoveries involve 1 vehicle towing, the other towed and say 25 metres apart and usually on the same hill (read slope/angle) so the cable between the vehicles would be parallel to the ground.
With my preferred way you would have a collared eye-bolt on the front of the bullbar attached to an anchor plate in/on the end of the chassis rails.
I can't envisage any scenario where your point is or would be valid, unless 1 vehicle was at the base of a sheer cliff and the other was at the top of same cliff.
Using the horizontal recovery points, the subject of this Post, if the towing vehicle was only slightly higher than the towed vehicle the cable or rope or strap would be rubbing/jammed hard up against the bottom of the bumper/bullbar. It would definitely damage a stock plastic bumper and would sever a nylon winch rope or strap. Draw a line from the recovery point hole forward and see how close it is to the bar, in some cases I would say that the rope/strap will be touching the bar on level ground.
2 things to remember.
One. 99% of the time both vehicles are on the same hill, which means both are on the same angle with the rope parallel to the ground.
Two, the underbody and on chassis horizontal recovery points will put the towing cable very close to the bottom of the bullbar, which leaves it vulnerable to being chafed/squashed as the vehicle goes into dips, esp. Dyneema type ropes and snatch straps. Also if you are bogged to the chassis you will need to dig under the vehicle to find and attach strap/cable.
Some of these recovery points hang down 3" to 4" below chassis rail height, reducing ground clearance and ready to hang up on anything in the way, as it seems the fashion to leave shackles hanging in the recovery points there is great potential to damage them as well.
Eye bolts (Collared or swivel) on the front of a bullbar are versatile, can be removed for city driving, have large pin hole diameters (50mm), which allows the shackle pin to move (and not Jamb) and align itself with the direction of the pull, are usually clear of mud when bogged and allow a shackle to be used as it was designed to be, hope this explains what I'm about, Regards Frank.