How to integrate rear indicator lights with pork pies without changing originality?

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Originally Posted by Hebe

When I went to the registration process (Vic roads) last year I understood that.... if you make any changes to the originality of the vehicle (such as replaced engine) you will have to comply with all current requirements when (re-)registering. This would include seatbelts, lights, and who knows what else.

This is more intended for larger than original capacity engine replacement and has applied for years.

I was thus told that I would not need seatbelts for my original Series 1 of 1958, but that this excemption is for adult passengers only. Children below 12 always need seatbelts, even in a classic fully original.
This may be the case in Victoria

I may be wrong or misinformed.
But again guys, the topic is not the legality. It is the how to...?

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There are now National Road Rules since June 2010 that make it an offence to CARRY a child under the age of seven years in ANY motor vehicle without complying with those new rules - and there are no exceptions other than buses that carry over twelve passengers.
See here:
Child restraints
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

Effectively this means that it is an offence to carry a child under the age of seven years without them being restrained in an approved restraining and protective device.

Ian is correct in observing American vehicles that are still Left Hand Drive have red flashing indicators. There is a NSW full registration late model Mustang with a band of sequential flashing red lights across the back in our suburb.

But this still does not alter the safety issues of driving on the road. Just because you can get away without fitting obvious flashers (or seat belts) does not mean it is a good idea with those on the road that would not understand hand signals, period trafficators or even red flashers incorporated as original.

Much better to fit some suitable period looking amber flashers on brackets off the outer rear tub attachment bolts and the front bumper. That way if someone else runs into your pride and joy you will not have an argument from them that they did not see your intentions. If it is a serious accident you would not want to jeopardise other older vehicles if some coroner makes a recommendation that all old vehicles be removed from our roads because they are a danger to other road users.

Not to mention that your Series vehicle may be a little slower than other impatient road users who also manage to run into other modern vehicles and trucks with hectares of lights.

Bob

What the Law says in SA (FOR THE SHORT VERSION, SKIP TO BOLD OR COLOURED BITS!)
New laws for child restraints
Following a decision by the Australian Transport Council, Transport Ministers from around Australia have agreed to amend the Australian Road Rules to introduce a mandatory size-appropriate restraint system for all children travelling in motor vehicles up to the age of seven years.

The new laws come into effect 1 July 2010 and penalties will apply from 1 October 2010. This delay is intended to provide parents and carers with sufficient time to purchase (or arrange to hire) the restraints they need, or to make necessary modifications to their vehicle to accommodate the restraints.

Passengers over 16 years
Under the Australian Road Rules, passengers over 16 years must occupy a seat fitted with a seat belt if such a seat is available. The seat belt must be worn, and the responsibility for wearing it rests with both the driver and the passenger.
In addition, drivers must wear a seat belt if one is fitted to the driver’s seat. The seat belts must be worn properly adjusted and fastened.

Remember - A properly adjusted seat belt passes over the pelvis and hips, does not touch the wearer’s head or neck and is adjusted so that the buckle is at or below the hip. Make sure it is securely fastened. Seat belts are designed primarily for adults, but they also offer some protection for children.Passengers under 16 years
At present, the law deals separately with children under one year old and those between one and 16 years.

Passengers under one year old must be restrained in a suitable, approved child restraint that is properly adjusted and fastened.
Passengers aged one year and over, but under 16 years, must occupy a seat fitted with a seat belt or suitable child restraint, if such a seat is available. The seat belt or child restraint must be worn properly adjusted and fastened in all motor vehicles.

Under this rule, a seat is classified as 'available' if it is not occupied by another person under the age of 16 years.

The responsibility for children under 16 years using restraints correctly rests with the driver.

Restrictions on where passengers can sit for vehicles without enough seatbelts
Passengers must not sit in the front row of seats in vehicles with more than one row of seats where seatbelts are not fitted, or there are not enough seatbelts. If the other seats are full, passengers aged 16 years or more can sit in the front row. Passengers aged less than 16 years may only sit in the front row if wearing a seatbelt that is properly adjusted.

Exceptions to wearing seatbelts
Seatbelts do not have to be worn by people if their doctor has written a letter stating that the person doesn't have to wear a seatbelt on the ground of physical disability or any medical ground. The person must have the letter with her or him, or a seatbelt must be worn.
Exemptions
Bus drivers
Bus drivers will continue to be exempt from ensuring passengers under 16 years of age are restrained.

Under the Australian Road Rules, a bus is defined as a motor vehicle designed to carry over 12 adults (including the driver). If a vehicle is designed to carry 12 adults or less (including the driver) it is not a bus and the driver is not exempt from ensuring all passengers are appropriately restrained.

Other exemptions
•Motorbikes (HA HA HA :D)

•A person for whom a certificate signed by a medical practitioner is produced by the driver of the vehicle.*

•A person for whom a certificate of exemption issued by the Minister for Transport is produced by the driver of the vehicle.*

•A person travelling in a historic vehicle that is registered and driven in accordance with the conditions of registration.

•A person in a vehicle where there are insufficient seatbelts for all occupants, priority must be given to children under 16 years of age.

* These exemptions do not apply if the certificate is not produced on request by the driver of the vehicle.

Road Safety : Seatbelts & child restraints


So hopefully at least that one is clear, the way I understand it, no exemption for 0 - 1year, MUST BE restrained in correct capsule etc etc..

But go ahead Wayne, you and Mel can continue taking the kids and keep feeding the horses!

Digger

(sorry for the thread hijack! :o This info maybe should be promulgated into its own sticky thread, state by state laws etc (only if those laws are confirmed of course))

Hi there all

Thanks Digger - so the Short and curlies are:

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exemptions

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A person travelling in a historic vehicle that is registered and driven in accordance with the conditions of registration

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All is good

Wayne

WAYNE,
GOOD FOR US AS ABOVE APPLIES TO S.A. REG VEHICLES ,
BUT OTHERS USE CAUTION - NOT SURE HOW IT APPLIES IN OTHER STATES.

LOOKING AT LINKS FROM BOB APPEARS NSW IS A "NO"

My understanding of the Qld laws these days, is that if you carry any child under the age of 12, the vehicle must be fitted with the correct restraint. Obviously similar to NSW.

My S1 doesn't have seat belts and wont be fitted with them until such time as the prospective Grandad (me) has grandkids to contend with. Which BTW is not any time soon. And we all know, kids love to travel around in an old Land Rover.

My understanding of the child restraint laws is that they Australia wide with all states having signed up to the proposal.

Anyway - this has little to do with indicators fitted to landies back in the mid 50s.

Garry

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Originally Posted by garrycol

My understanding of the child restraint laws is that they Australia wide with all states having signed up to the proposal.

Anyway - this has little to do with indicators fitted to landies back in the mid 50s.

Garry

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Garry all states may have signed up but then as with all ARRs they seem to add their own 'tweaks' I have quoted from the SA Dept Transport Energy and Infrastructure website is SA so I will stand by that advice.

and yes you are correct we havent got back to the flashing tail lights have we? Back on that....I cannot find anything in black and white but all references to indicators I have located refer to "amber" so I assume is a no go. (in SA)

Though what you have quoted for SA rukes on child restraint does seem to be the same as the other states.

On the issue of indicators again I don't think SA is any different to the other states back in the 50s. If I recall correctly it was either the Holden Special FC or FE had indicators but these were in the parkers on the front and in the tail lights at the rear.

When the requirements for white/orange indicators came in for the front and orange for the rears I don't believe old Holdens were required to have their indicators changed in any state.

To Hebe's original question - I would obtain the S1 parts that made the globes in the pork pies flash. The links I put up earlier have the original gear and what people have done to make it all work using more modern equipment - the answers are there.

Garry

Hebe also brought up the issue of seat belts.

Here is what the apparent status is in New South Wales in relation to children under seven -

Note:

If no seatbelts are fitted to the vehicle it is an offence to carry children under seven years of age in the vehicle.
It is legal to carry a child aged 7-16yrs in a vehicle that does not require seatbelts to be fitted.

Fitting aftermarket seat belts to an historic vehicle not manufactured with seatbelt mounts would allow children under seven to travel in historic vehicles but would make the vehicle ineligible for NSW HCRS and it would have to be engineer certified for full NSW rego.

FOR THE FUTURE:

Since this new regulation has been adopted in principle, and to the letter, from the Australian Road Rules by all states, the NSW RTA cannot/will not give an exemption for historic vehicles. It is a national initiative and must be negotiated at a national level by the AHMF if we are to seek and gain an exemption for historic vehicles without seatbelt mounts as original equipment. Obviously historic vehicles with seatbelt mounts must comply with the regulation.

From: CONDITIONAL REGISTRATION


And back to what I said earlier about the blinkers -

"But this still does not alter the safety issues of driving on the road. Just because you can get away without fitting obvious flashers (or seat belts) does not mean it is a good idea with those on the road that would not understand hand signals (that are still legal by the way), period trafficators or even red flashers incorporated as original.

Much better to fit some suitable period looking amber flashers on brackets off the outer rear tub attachment bolts and the front bumper. That way if someone else runs into your pride and joy you will not have an argument from them that they did not see your intentions. If it is a serious accident you would not want to jeopardise other older vehicles if some coroner makes a recommendation that all old vehicles be removed from our roads because they are a danger to other road users.

Not to mention that your Series vehicle may be a little slower than other impatient road users who also manage to run into other modern vehicles and trucks with hectares of lights."

Period accessories and replacements are acceptable (at least in NSW) for Conditional Registration. In SA fitting indicators could not be seen as modifying a historic vehicle "from its original design to any significant extent".
In Queensland "If a Special Interest vehicle does not have permanent lighting, the operator must carry a removable lighting system with the vehicle at all times and use that system whenever lighting would normally be required."

If you want to mix it with others on the road you need to be VERY visible. As for LEDs they may not comply with relevant ADRs and many being sold do not even comply for use on trailers.

Bob

Hi All
This has to stop.......

there is only 10 people in the Eastern states that would know what a flashing red light was.
If you want the other 17,000,000 Clowns that drive cars in Australia thinking they know everything, with the object of killing themselves and other Clowns who do not know the road rules, please do not join them by having a car that they do not know what a red flashing light means, because the Clowns do not know what it is, please teach them right from bloody wrong, by not having one, before they kill you, because it may be help to reduce the carnage on our roads.
It has not been mentioned by Digger, even though he has fallen over trying to tell you, in as many words, digger is one of our finest.
Please listen to those who are trying to help you.
Do not cut your nose off to spite your face, I am of a age were I am sick of going to funerals of people that know more than me.
so ended the lesson for this Sunday the 24th of Oct 2010.
cheers
Ian